Active or inactive

[jrakes]

As a Scoutmaster, I am experiencing a problem with Scouts actively participapeing in Troop meetings and troop campouts. This is due to so many other activities that they are involved with through school, etc. A common problem, I know. However, at what point does a Scoutmaster and its PLC make a decision as to drop those who aren't involved with the troop's activities but who are toatally immersed with the other, non'scout ones? This situation is adversely affecting this Troop and its Patrol functions. I recently sent mailings to those and gave them ultimatums to begin taking active parts in the troop/patrols or be dropped from the roster. Your comments will be appreciated.

 

 

JDR

[Mike Long]

This is a very common problem indeed.

 

We don't drop boys from our roster we let them drop themselves when recharter time comes around. If they don't recharter then that's their decision. I won't force a boy to choose between Scouts and everything else. Scouting is supposed to be fun not a job. Instead I would ask the scout to look real hard at what he chooses to take part in. The Patrol Leaders need to let these scouts know that they are needed and that it is difficult to function as a patrol with them. You also need to take a hard look at your program and honestly ask yourself if there are areas that can be improved in order to draw in these inactive scouts.

 

If you and your leadership feel that you have done everything you can to encourage these guys to get busy then I only have one piece of advice. Overload each patrol's membership. If each patrol has enough active boys in it to function, then I would spread out your incactive boys among them. I would never put all the inactive boys in one patrol. That would be a waste of time and effort and also discourages the ones that might get active that are sitting on the fence. Why come back if your patrol stinks?

 

Good luck.

 

[sst3rd]

If your Scouting program "kicks", they'll come. If you have great programs for all levels of Scouts, they'll stay active (or get active). Only those more dedicated Scouts become and stay leaders. These are the ones getting their ranks (leadership requirement). As for the inactive Scouts, as was said earlier, if Scouting isn't their cup of tea, they'll leave on their own, and will be dealt with at reregistration time, OR as dues are probably not being paid, some Troops don't allow Scouts on the trips. There's a lot of flexibility that you can use, but as you are trying to get those inactive Scouts "active" (as you should), always make the ACTIVE Scouts "top" priority. I have a lot of Scouts that are extremely busy, but make time for Scouting, because they are the ones planning the meetings and activites. What other youth program does that????!!!!

 

Anderson

[cjmiam]

I wholeheartedly agree with sst3rd. If you build it they will come! "You" meaning the collective effort of the troop. Yes, everyone involved in adult Scouting faces this opportunity. My saying has always been that "Scouting should compliment life, not complicate it". There is a lot going on for a boy. My advice is to not make them choose. There have been some Scouts in my troop that have taken 3 months off for football. I have even gone to watch a few games. I have yet to see the coach at one of our Court of Honors... Nontheless, that's besides the point. Put it in this perspective. Just imagine if that kid does come to one of your events and learns the meaning of trust, or why it's important to help one another, or how to save another persons life. Wouldn't that make keeping him on the roster just the best thing you ever did for him? Granted there are some that just don't care, but please don't let that make you not care.

 

Just some thoughts...

 

CJM

[jrakes]

Thanks, each of of you for your timely responses. However, since then I have received e-mailings from three of my scouts about whom this concerns. Each wishes to stay with the troop, and each understands the troop's dilemna. As to my allowing scouts to remain uninvolved with the troop because of football, basketball, soccer, tennis, track, 4-H, church choir, jobs on troop meeting nights and during weekends, etc. , I have told them that they will have to choose because they can't be involved in everything well as witnessed by their absence from this troop. Membership in any organization requires participation. Besides, what lesson would I or any one else be teaching if I accepted this situation? Our patrol meetings are very well organized and do work exceptionally well, but the leadership can't depend on those who don't show up. Regardless of the times when everyone is so very busy trying to do everything, as Scoutmaster I have to insist on my boys being at meetings and events and keeping the patrol method alive. In closing, I am not a drive-by SM, nor are my boys allowed to be drive-by Scouts.

 

JDR

[jmcquillan]

It sounds like you've got all your ducks in a row, and you've made the right choice. You can't wait for the Scouts to show up to run the program, and you can base the program on the hope that they will show up.

 

If you're convinced that your program is great, and you still have a bunch of Scouts who still come and aren't saddled with too much to do in their lives, I'll offer my experience for what it's worth.

 

When I was Scoutmaster, I found that Scouting never seemed to be on the same level playing field in a boys life, when compared with family, school, church, and school or town sports. Many Moms & Dads, unconciously (I hope), place Scouting on a lower level of benefit and importance in their sons lives that these other things by their expressions of delight and support. Thus, the boys do the same. With regard to that, the only thing I've ever been able to do, without stepping on toes and getting into places I shouldn't be, is to suggest to the parents, on New Parents Night, that they think about this issue when getting their sons involved in Scouting in the first place. It's important. Why, they ask? Well, if a boy is to succeed at things in life, it's important to have the time and energy to be able to attend to those things. It's better, from my point of view, to have one's son involved in only those things he can give 100% to all the time, rather than a whole bunch of activities to which he can only give 50-75%. It's a better lesson in life to be able to give all, rather than half, because time and energy does not allow. So, I tell parents to think about placing Scouting on the same level playing field with other activities in their son's lives, or commit to only those things they can support him in 100% and allow him to give 100%. And if Scouting doesn't fit the mold, well that's fine. At least we'd be comfortable with the fact that the boy would be quite busy with beneficial things in his life.

 

Does this mean that boys participating in sports or other activities can't be in my troop? No, emphatically NO. What it does mean, is that there will be limits, imposed by the boys willingness to participate, on how and when he advances (a life lesson here).

 

I used to tell the boys that, if they were going to be participating in, say, High School football, and it would interfere with Scouting, then they were responsible for writing a short letter to the Scoutmaster, outlining what they would be doing, for how long, and how long the Troop could expect to be without them, and when they expected to return. This provided the Troop with facts they could use for planning around the absence of these boys. We tried not to place the boys in an "either/or" situation. In turn, the boys who were going to be absent for some period were told that their positions, if they had one, would be given to others for the term required for advancement (a life lesson, but if we knew soon enough, we'd try to avoid placing these kids on positions that would suddenly become vacant). They would also be told that the term they were absent would not count towards advancement or time in the troop, it was a leave of absence by the Scouts choice (another life lesson). They could, and would, pick up where they left off when they came back, but not necessarily in an warrant position. That would have to wait for the next election or opening. Most Scouts played by these rules, and it worked. We hardly ever lost older Scouts on a permanent basis. They wanted to some back, and they knew they could. They also knew that they would have to work a little harder to catch up on advancement.

 

Of course, there was the occassional boy and family who, no matter what benefit of the doubt they were given, they simply showed up on a haphazard basis and expected everything the same as the boys who showed up regularly, or they tried to only show up for the really good trips. Our policy on attendance pretty much ruled out the special trips for them, and we'd take quite a bit of time and effort to counsel them on participation and attendance, with their parents I should point out. When it became apparent that these boys simply had either little time to be in Scouting regularly, of lacked the desire (like they were there because Mom & Dad said they would be), we would sit with the boy and the parents and lay the cards on the table, politely, but firmly. The adult leadership in the troop could not split itself into enough parts to attend to those boys that wanted to be there and always were, and those who weren't or couldn't be. We would encourage to boy and his parents to review the boys schedule for available time. We would encourage them to take a look at whose desire it was that the boy was in Scouting. And lastly, we would encourage them to decide if Scouting was truly something they had the time and energy for. If the answer to these questions indicated a lack of time, desire, effort, and/or energy, we would encourage them to take Scouting out of the boys schedule and give all their energy and effort to those things they could all support and participate in, together. Invariably, that would either open the door for them to leave, or really enter Scouting as a family.

 

Take this for what it's worth to you. But it worked for me for about 20 years, once I understood what had to be done.

[eisely]

Jmcquillan makes a very good point about focusing on the parents when a boy is considering joining scouting. Expectations need to be set across the board.

 

Youth today are extremely fortunate in having so many worthwhile things to choose from. Thus Scouts has to compete for the time and attention of youth members and for volunteer time, since all these other activities also properly insist on parental support. If a troop forces boys to choose between sports in particular and scouting, it will lose a lot membership. A troop cannot accept low commitments from its senior youth leaders and patrol leaders on the other hand. We accept boys in our troop readily, but try to be more forceful about participation when it comes to leadership positions. We also do not purge people, but allow them to not re-up at re-chartering time. One relatively minor disadvantage of this tolerance is that it raises the bar somewhat for having a quorum on hand for OA elections.

[OldGreyEagle]

I think as long as a boy lets you know what he is doing, there is no problem with him pursuing other interests at various times during the year.

 

Of course, if the boy is a patrol leader or assitant senior patrol leader, or in another role of leadership he needs to be in attendance, but once those duties are discharged, I see no reason why other interests are not possible. In our area fall equals band and our troop loses half its membership on friday nights and saturday afternoons. Personally I hate the way band intrudes on the kids lives, but it does. We would lose many good kids if we said band or scouts.

 

Boys Life magazine is constantly doing stories on scouts who are national champions in skate boarding, surfing, etc. I am sure those scouts dont make every meeting, but are still considered an asset to the troop.

 

I dont know if this commercial is still running, but I seem to remember a TV spot for Boy Scouts where a list of celebrities are shown along with Eagle Scout or former Boy Scout. I seem to remember that Henry Aaron is shown as a "former scout". I sure hope no well meaning scoutmaster ran Hammerin' Hank out of scouts before he could earn Eagle because he missed some activities due to baseball.

[jrakes]

Again, I thank each of you for your advise on this matter; however, the one item that continues to stick with me involves the issue of being a part of an organization. My contention is Boy Scouting is one of many options for our youth, and as such, a choice must be made. Personally, as SM I want young men who perceive scouting as an integral part of their lives. It is not important that I reach each and every youth, as this can't be done anyway. The flexibility issue of scouting has become a real issue for me as me. Why is it that some expect scouting to bend over backwards to other activities, whereas most other activities don't give options for those in scouting? We all know what a typical coach would have to say to a youth who missed . let's say, a soccer game for a scouting event. Lap time,bench time, or dismissal, right? I know that this next comment will alienate some, but I have reached a point where I only want those in my troop who can give 110%, whether they are in leadership positions or not. The per centage of those who remain in scouting and make Eagle used to be 2%. Many of those in this percentage probably were inactive scouts and did not deserve the advancement because they chose to be distantly involved. I have never sought to be a SM who tries to surpass other SM's in numbers of Eagles, and I never will. As the Eagle Advancement Committee Chairman for my District, I have boarded young men whom I truly don't believe have lived up to all the tenants of becoming an Eagle Scout. However, once a scout reaches this level, it is my contention that the scoutmaster has obviously made his decision regarging his/her candidate passing the board. I will not allow a scout to get to this level until all requirements have been made, in particular his active participation with the troop, regardless of his other (more) important activities. Finally, granting a scout a leave of absence from the troop and its activities because of sports, etc. is ludicrous. What message would this be sending the boy and his family? Life's lessons, indeed, are a part of growing up. They must choose.

[jmcquillan]

jrakes,

 

If only life were as simple as you would like it to be. I fear that, although I admire your commitment, you're likely setting yourself up for disappointment as Scouting is not, and probably never will be, on the same level playing field as school sports. And it's simply not as important as family, school itself, and church, so those activites win every time. School sports, on the other hand, is a big draw on the attentions and dreams of most young men, and Scouting can not compete with that, no matter what we may try to do to make it so.

 

Scouting can be a very important part of a young man's life, but an either/or choice, (sports or scouts), presented to most young men, will only serve to drive them away from Scouting. Accomodation must be made for all the activities that parents allow their kids to get involved with today. And, as I said above, therein lies the key to successful Scouting: encouraging parents to help their kids plan a schedule of activities that will allow the boys to give 100% in each that he enrolls in. In all the years I've been in Scouting, I've seen many parents who allow their kids, even encourage their kids, to get involved in far too many activities. Burn out comes quickly. School work inevitably suffers. (By the way, I've always had a policy that Scouting comes AFTER school work. When any parent tells me that their sons school work is suffering, and he's spending too much time in outside activities, there's two things I do. First, I try to encourage the parents to look at the kids schedule and fix it fo that their son has the right amount of time to spend with the few things he can do well, and, like I said, give 100% to. Second, I'll tell the wayward Scout that his school work comes first. Scouting will have to wait until his parents are satisfied that the grades are where they should be. The kids in the troop all know my policy, so they're usually pretty good at keeping the nose in the books. Scouting is no replacement for good school work. You'd be surprised at how many parents look at this attitude as something from Mars. What they expect is what a school coach would say, something more akin to pleading that the kid be allowed to stay, but telling the kid that he needs to do better in school. Where' the commitment to something higher than sports there? It isn't there. Parents are usually quite surprised when they hear me say that school is more important than what I'm doing with their kids.)

 

And, I don't think it's realistic to expect 110% from any child in anything, school, family, scouting, etc. The best a child can do is give his/her all, and to me, that's 100%, or darn close to it. I hear a lot of commitment in your comments, and I admire that. But don't set your standards too high, or both you and the boys you hope to serve may be very disappointed.

 

Good Luck, though.

 

[jrakes]

Again, thanks for your comments. You are probably right about my standards being too high for today's youth as they are involved in many other activities. As a youth in scouting involvement was instilled in me by my Scoutmaster Jerry Stine. He was tough but compassionate. He made sure that we lived up to the Scout motto, for example. He would tell us young boys that doing one's best, whether it be in scouting or whatever, meant contributing more than one hour per week. Evidently, this philosopy has stuck with me and has been instilled into our program. Again, scouting is not for all boys as its demands are high. Making Eagle is no easy accomplishment, but it can be reached.

 

In regards to the letters I mailed last Friday to a few inactive scouts, I think they got the message. All but one scout showed up for last night's meeting. I will contact him again, however. Thanks.

 

JDR

[Stan Riddle]

My take is just a little different. I believe it is my responsibility to help boys be the best they can be. I have kids who are very good in both sports and Scouts. They know how to utilize their time. I have others who are good in sports, and "OK" in Scouts, some that Scouting is their activity ( not involved in sports )and I have a couple who have no motivation, and little family support.

 

I believe my job is to teach, observe, guide, and support these young men. I know some will never make Eagle. Some will never make First Class. But I believe ALL will be richer or what they learned in Scouting.

 

I've said this before - National and Council often look toward "Eagle Mills" as successful Troops. We all know that many "paper Eagles" get awarded each year. But I truly believe the mark of a successful Troop is how much the boys have grown - as citizens, as moral youth, and as contributing members of society.

 

Not all boys will make Eagle, but all boys can be helped.

[Kevin M]

AMEN, Stan. I was an active Cub, Scout, and Explorer for ten years, and acheived the rank of Star. I had three scoutmasters and ASM ranginging from fantastic to milk toast. But my experiences in Scouting as a youth is what made me return as an adult, where Iv'e held many positions, and worked with lots of boys over the past 15 years. No, we can't touch them all. Many will come and go, many won't come at all. But keep thinking of those few you do touch. Keep helping them run a quality program. Keep letting them know you care. And they'll remember you and their Scouting experience for life. I've gone through a couple of periods when I seriously questioned if my effort was worth it, and even went so far as to remove position and troop patches from my uniform. But there's always another boy or two coming up the line that needs you, and needs what Scouting has to offer. Now that I've written a recruiting pamphlet, I'll just say keep doing the best job you can, and those boys who see Scouting as worthwhile will keep coming.

[cjmiam]

Excellent words of wisdom stan and kevin. It reminds me of the `ol man walking on the beach with the thousands of starfish that washed up after the storm. The man was throwing each of them one at a time back into the ocean. A young boy came along and asked why he was doing this when there were thousands upon thousands, how could it matter? The `ol man replied, because it matters to this one and threw it back into the ocean. There are a lot of kids out there that need all the help they can get. Each one of them matters and each one of them has the potential to do anything they put their mind to.

 

If there are any troops that do not wish to help certain ones based on attendance or other reasons, please consider pointing them in the direction of another troop that does. Id certainly hate to see a boy that needs Scouting be turned away because hes involved in the game of life.

 

If kids dont learn how to do many things well at an early age, theyre sure going to have problems when: the presentation is tomorrow, the order is late, the dog needs to be picked up from the vet, no mothers day present yet, pick up kids after ya get the dog, buy groceries, change oil in car, mow the lawn, fix the roof, etc, etc, etc.

 

Scouting should compliment life not complicate it!

 

Chris

 

[Rooster7]

Stan, Kevin, and Chris... I agree, agree, and agree. However, I do have a word to say in defense of Mr. Rakes' philosophy. While every reasonable effort should be made to bring these boys into the brotherhood of Scouting, don't sacrifice your base. What I mean by that, is this...If, as of a result of these efforts, the program suffers and your active boys start to lose interest, then too much is being sacrificed. For instance, an inactive PL can frustrate an entire Patrol. Apathetic boys who do not conform to Patrol and Troop norms can demoralize your active Scouts. Behavior like this, if left unchecked, can cause an otherwise well run Troop to come to a shrieking halt.

 

Also, there is something to be said for believing in your group, cause, or organization. Take a church with loose membership criteria. If the new members do not really believe in the same theology as the church, eventually that church will not stand what it use to. Its theology will change. There is a danger of this happening to Troops and BSA as a whole. If new members treat Scouting with indifference or don't have the same passion for its tenets, its likely (over time) that Troop will not stand for it what it use to.