Example or Pressure?

[Pete T. Northmoss]

Recently the troop guide in our troop was approached by the SPL and asked NOT to come to meetings in a full field uniform because no one else did. Most Scouts in the troop come in their uniform shirt and other street-clothes. Apparently the SPL thought that the troop guide's wearing uniform socks and pants or shorts to meetings was putting pressure on the other Scouts to do the same, was condescending somehow, or was not being a "team-player."

 

Should the troop guide consent to the SPL's request? The troop has no unique "mandates" on uniform wear, written or otherwise. Any thoughts on how to address this one?

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Absolutely not!!! The SPL has no right to ask the Troop Guide to do such a thing. Especially since the Troop Guide is doing the RIGHT thing and setting a good example. If I were the SM, I would probably have a polite talk to the SPL about how he would be better off setting an example himself, than critizing those that are doing so.

 

Now, if the Troop Guide is being condescending in any way, then there is room for some criticism regarding his behavior. But, not with his wearing the uniform.

[dan]

 

Apparently the SPL thought that the troop guide's wearing uniform socks and pants or shorts to meetings was putting pressure on the other Scouts to do the same

The SM should sit down with the SPL and ask why he is not setting the example, like the troop guide is. Do the adult leaders wear the uniform? Are they setting the example? Why would the SM not expect the scout leaders to set the example also?

[Pete T. Northmoss]

In all fairness to the SPL, he may have been sincere in his remark to the troop guide, perhaps trying to exact some fairness or equality -- where the SPL thought being in-uniform was "non-uniform" as far as the other Scouts' feelings were concerned.

 

This might put a different spin on a response to the SPL's request ... Advice?

[EagleInKY]

Doesn't change my mind. The SPL is supporting a uniform that is not endorsed by the BSA. For support, go to this link: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/faststart/uniform/index.html

 

This is Boy Scout fast start training. What is listed as optional? Neckerchief & slide. That's it. Everything else is part of the uniform. The SPL needs some training.

 

Do your adult leaders wear the uniform? I've found that most troops that have poor uniforming have it from the top down.

[OldGreyEagle]

Thats like during the 1936 Olympics somebody asking Jesse Owens to quit running so fast as he was making the germans look bad...

 

Or telling Jerry Rice to quit catching so many footballs as he made other players look bad...

 

Heck, with as much talk the forum has about to much PC creeping into life, isnt this the ultimate? The one scout who is following a method being told not to as he makes the others look bad? He does not need to descend to the common level, rather that level needs to ascend to where the troop guide is(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[johndaigler]

Pete T Northmoss - Welcome!!!!!!!! But, you're not going to find any support for your SPL at this campfire. The real question is how it got to this point and how you're all gonna work together to make it better.

 

jd

[VentureScoutNY]

 

"In all fairness to the SPL, he may have been sincere in his remark to the troop guide..."

 

OK, I'll play with that. The SPL doesn't realize that a full Unifrom includes ALL parts of the Unifrom, ie pants socks ect... In that case, the SM or someone with some knowledge of the RULES should sit the SPL down and teach him what is correct. Hopefully when he realizes what is correct, he will than wear the full uniform, thus setting the right example.

 

Ponder this,

 

The guide wears his full unifrom...

 

than..

 

The SPL wears his full unifrom...

 

than..

 

Before you know it, you have a sharp dressed Troop. It could lead to a domino effect...

 

Goodluck, keep us updated!

 

YIS

[Pete T. Northmoss]

"Heck, with as much talk the forum has about to(o) much PC creeping into life, isnt this the ultimate? The one scout who is following a method being told not to as he makes the others look bad?" -- OldGreyEagle, I think you've zeroed in on the point. Quite a paradox ... but nothing new.

 

How does one tell this SPL that his intent is (arguably) admirable, but that it is misguided? I think the response should go beyond citing "the rules" (a.k.a. The Rules and Regulations of the BSA) yet again. Comments?(This message has been edited by Pete T. Northmoss)

[OldGreyEagle]

Pete, wearing the uniform is not an example of following the Rules and Regulations of Boy Scouts, I see you are suffering truncatingitis, I hate when that happens.

 

Wearing the uniform is one of the eight methods of scouting which help the program with its three aims.

 

If all this is Greek (See Wheeler,or maybe not so much) to you, I can start a new thread and we can discuss it there.

 

As has been hashed and rehashed quite a bit the fewer Rules and Regulations there are, the better life is in a troop, and you may be surprised to know how few rules scouting actually has when compared to the amount of "urban legend rules" that a lot of troops have

 

But all this digresses from the original point. The SPL.

 

What is your role in this scenario, are you the Guide, Parent of Guide, innocent bystander, other?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Pete T. Northmoss]

OldGreyEagle,

 

Ans: Commitee Member [Traditional, rural Scouting background, "greybeard" - lit. and fig.; gave up on Latin 40 years ago.]

 

(That should appease the truncation gremlins ;-)

[FScouter]

Refer the SPL to page 13 of the Handbook and challenge him to see what he can do to encourage the rest of the troop to join in with him and the Troop Guide.

[Adrianvs]

As a program director, I decided to wear the field uniform full time, rather than wear the optional field uniform during the day. In doing this, I feared that some would see it as "condescending" or somehow elitist, much like the SPL. Fortunately, it did not seem to be taken this way. In fact, some staffers and scoutmasters made a point to tell me that they liked my "uniform philosophy." The fact that simply wearing a standard uniform can be described as a "philosophy" speaks to the power of the uniform. In any case, they did not feel like I was pressuring them, even though they were more than welcome to wear the field uniform as well. Nor did they feel that I was being condescending.

 

I feel that simply and quietly wearing the complete uniform (whether field or activity), is an effective teaching tool and one that will rarely be contradicted. This particular SPL is an example, but it is likely because he has been instructed by so many older scouts and scoutmasters who choose to routinely wear incomplete uniforms, even when they have the ability to do otherwise. No one needs to be chastized, of course, but simply persist in doing what is right quietly and purposefully.

[SR540Beaver]

Pete,

 

We kind of got our "bluff" in on our scouts early. We are a new troop of ten 11 and 12 year old boys. We didn't require a uniform (can't), but we did tell them that we intended for this troop to be a fully uniformed troop and left it at that. All adult leaders always wear a full uniform by choice. In no time at all, they all started showing up in uniform. The new boys have even fretted over the fact that all they have is a shirt. We've told them that it is OK to just have part of the uniform until they can eventually get all the pieces. That might be harder with an established troop with older boys where a precedent has already been set. What I would do is make it known that boy leaders are supposed to set an example and that the adult leadership expects them to support the full uniform. Remind boys who want to run for positions of leadership what your expectations are. I visited a troop where there was a hodge podge of clothing, but each and every boy leader as well as the adults were in uniform. It eventually trickles down. There is strength in numbers. If everyone else is in uniform and you aren't, you stick out like a sore thumb and it is easier to dress like a "dork" when you can blend into the crowd of other "dorks".