Requiring Troop to wear uniforms

[SR540Beaver]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this has been covered in one of the many other uniform threads. I was thinking it had been stated that a charter CAN require the wearing of the uniform even though BSA says it isn't required. It would "logically" follow that the charter would then need to work to assist in uniforming anyone who could not afford it. Am I dreaming this, or was this stated in another thread?

[boleta]

The Troop my son joined in 2000 was a "full uniform" Troop. Full field uniforms were required at Troop meetings and while travelling on events. The problem was that there was NO effort to enforce this "rule" which was spelled out in the Troop bylaws. Several ASMs, including me, decided a rule was meaningless and gave confusing messages to teenage boys if not enforced. A Scout was allowed 3 meetings without a full uniform. With a 4th "violation", he was sent home to get the uniform. I saw nothing wrong with this until this year when this was discussed on the Forum in a previous thread.

 

WOW! was I educated. BSA does not require a uniform to participate. There are MANY ways to encourage wearing a uniform without demanding it, requiring it, or punishing a boy in the process of getting to a full uniformed troop. Requiring a boy to wear a uniform for a Board of Review or SM conference is adding to the requirements and is not allowed. And so on. Take the recommendations in this thread to heart. They help you get there in a positive way.

 

As Eamonn says, Train them, trust them, let them lead. When properly trained, the boys will lead the way to a full uniformed troop.

 

[BPwannabe@137]

Now for my 2 cents.

 

Like all scouters whow were scouts, I think my unit was the cats meow. I go around wearing my full field uniform with everything stiched right and in the right place. I have several uniforms (old style and new) and make sure that they are as correct as possible. I tell the other leaders and scouts that our troop was so great becasue we were 100% uniformed troop.

 

I then pull out my old scout photos and look. Well, we looked more like a unit out of some bad Vietnam war movie. Scouts wearing acid wash jeans with the shirt (this was the 80's). We all had bolo ties or different colored neckerchiefs. Scout ball caps, campaign hats, auzzy hats, civil war cav hats, red berets, green British berets, piss cutters, and yes, spiked hair.

 

We all had shirts (be they tan or olive), but on campouts you couldn't see them becuase of the combination of lumberjack coats, sheepskins, and camo army jackets.

(PS-all out scout leaders were in full uniform)

 

The moral of the story...(what was the moral), oh yes, we did scout stuff, we acted like scouts, and we had a great time. Never send a kid home. Set the example, suggest, and they will come along.

 

If you build it they will come.

[Eamonn]

Troop sells popcorn. Council pays 40% commission.

$300.00 in sales will pay for a uniform.

Scout sells 20 cans of popcorn at @15.00 each.

Sell 50 cans and you have about paid for the year.

Eamonn.

PS. Moral is A Scout is Thrifty, he pays his way.

[BadenP]

I was an ASM for a poor inner city troop, these kids couldn't afford to eat half the time let alone buy a uniform. Through a uniform bank in another council we were able to obtain uniform shirts for all the boys. Those guys were so proud of their new shirts, they told me they felt like scouts. Only a few of them ever got the complete uniform, but nobody was ever treated diffently no matter what. To all the uniform purists that posted here all I can say is what is the true meaning of the scouting spirit and program, if you feel its wearing only a complete uniform then I think you need re-examine your scouting methodology.

[Eamonn]

I am sorry BadenP Uniform is a method of Scouting.

While I am sure that there are cases in which a Scout for some reason can't afford a uniform or can't acquire one. It is my thinking that these cases are the exception and not the rule.

I know Scouts that have full uniforms that choose not to wear them. ( I know because these Scouts attended the National Jamboree, and wore full Scout uniform.)

I have ran a troop in the inner city, where most of the Scouts lived in the projects. The troop was over 60% non-white. Yet we managed to get all of the Scouts in full uniform.

Sure I agree that a Scout can live up to the ideals of Scouting without owning a full uniform. However if we were take a ride around the District that I serve which is by no means wealthy. We would see that the better troops regardless of family income are the troops that use all the methods of Scouting, which does include uniform.

Eamonn.

[BadenP]

Eamonn

 

First of all in this community there was such poverty that the ability of obtaining full uniforms was not a reality, this troop was 80% Black and 20% Hispanic, with an unemployment rate of 90%. The scout shirts we got in the second year was a great achievement for them. My contention is that a partial uniform is better than none, and that demanding a full uniform when it may not be feasible economically is a violation of the true purpose, method, and spirit of scouting. Denying a boy any of the benefits of scouting because of a troop rule of 100% full uniform goes against everything Baden Powell and scouting stands for, and is just plain wrong and mean spirited. Any scoutmaster who creates more obstacles than opportunities to scouting for any boy I feel is not living up to his position of fostering brotherhood and is violating the spirit of the scout law, courteous, kind, helpful, and friendly for a start. I am not trying to change your mind but trying to get you to see and explore this issue from another angle.

[boleta]

The race of the individuals in the posts by Eamonn and BadenP is IRRELEVANT. Yes, I am shouting. You promote unfair stereotypes by even mentioning it in this thread. The Polish neighborhood that I lived in Baltimore while in medical school was just as poor as the black neighborhood 3 blocks away. You do not support your argument by mentioning the race of the youth in need in this thread.

[Eamonn]

Boleta

You are of course right race should not come into play.

BadenP

You said that "I think you need to re-examine your Scouting methodology."

I pointed out that Uniform is one of the methods of Scouting.

Call me mean spirited or what ever name you want. But I just don't buy into the idea of poor kids that just can not find a way of acquiring a uniform. Yes there may be parents who don't want to pay for a uniform. These parents come in all shapes,sizes, colors and socioeconomic group.

I say that we as the adults in Scouting offer the Scouts opportunities to raise the money.

How many Troops raise money to send Scouts to camp or buy new tents? I contend that a Scout Uniform is a tool of Scouting and we should do everything that we can to get 100% of our Scouts wearing 100% uniform.

Eamonn.

[BadenP]

Eamonn I was not insinuating that you were mean spirited in any way, but the ideas you promoted were very one sided and too by the book except in more ideal situations.

 

Boleta you need to calm down, race was not the issue but plays an issue when it comes to scouting. I have heard from many that the scout program is geared to white middle class boys only. This troop was to prove that false to the people of that neighborhood. As poor as your Detroit home may have been it was not as desolate as this neighborhood, black , white or whatever. We brought the program here to give some hope to the youth and you know what it worked. So come down off your high horse and let this thread flow, OKAY!!

[LovetoCamp]

If he served in a troop in a poor black and hispanic neighborhood, why can't he say he served in a troop in a poor black and hsipanic neighborhood? Sounds like a fact and part of his background to me. A litte uber-the-top on the thought policing there guy.

[boleta]

This has nothing to do with thought police.

At least Eamonn acknowledged the irrelevence of the race of these needy scouts. I believe I will continue this thought in a new thread to avoid conflict with this one.

 

[Bob White]

The ability for scouts to wear a correct uniform is no more tied to the income of the scout and his family than is any other of the scouting methods.

 

Uniforming, like every other part of the scouting program, is dependent on the ability of the unit leaders to make a plan and make it happen.

[johndaigler]

 

BW, I know you know what you're talking about. So, with all due respect, I didn't follow ...

 

"The ability for scouts to wear a correct uniform is no more tied to the income of the scout and his family than is any other of the scouting methods. " ...

 

I would probably agree with your point if the family's income were the overriding issue. However, if the economic condition of the entire scouting environment is impoverished, I would find your wording less than concrete-carved truth -- maybe even hurtful. If the boy's family can't afford it, and the troop can't afford it, and the other boys' families can't, and the CO can't, and the neighborhood can't rally for any significant amount of popcorn or other fundraisers . . .

 

Where do Scouters go, then? It seems complicated.

 

jd

 

 

Also, WITH GOBS OF RESPECT TO BOTH "TYPES" OF POSTERS, what did Boleta say that was wrong? Eamonn, immediately agreed that race was not the issue, but rather, economic realities. Here and on the other thread, Boleta got BLASTED for suggesting that the points of the discussion were RELEVANT to money as opposed to race - that indeed the discussion of race distracted from the core problem to be solved. Can someone help me see what was offensive about his posts?

 

jd

[evmori]

The ability for scouts to wear a correct uniform is no more tied to the income of the scout and his family than is any other of the scouting methods.

 

It certainly is tied to the Scout's income or his families income! If they can't afford decent shoes, they aren't going to shell out major $$$$ for a uniform!

 

Uniforming, like every other part of the scouting program, is dependent on the ability of the unit leaders to make a plan and make it happen.

 

Agreed, but since the BSA doesn't require it's members to own a uniform, it can't be forced.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10