Venturing and Merit badges

[Kevin M]

A few clarifications. It's GSUSA, not GSA. Venturing is not a Troop. It's a seperate entity within the BSA. A boy may continue to earn Boy Scout rank only if he is registered with a troop. A Venturer cannot earn Bot Scout rank if registered only with a Venturing Crew. If we look at these as seperate programs, then the confusion lessens. A girl may register with a GSUSA troop and earn those awards while also being a member of Venturing, same as a boy may do with Boy Scouts.

As the father of two Boy Scouts and two Girl Scouts, I see first hand the lack of outdoor adventure in the girls' program. But from talking to experienced GSUSA staff at the Council office, and to a 25 year volunteer of many different councils, the biggest problem is with individuals, not the program as a whole. Those I've talked with say that the girls are allowed much more outdoor activity, but the troop leaders don't provide it. They were also very excited when I registered as an adult volunteer and offered my 15 years experience as a BSA adult volunteer. You men out there with daughters, don't gripe about the program unless you're willing to get involved and help change it! That's why I'm going camping with my daughter at a GSUSA camporee the weekend after my boys' District Camporee. I don't agree with all of GSUSA's ways, ( a little too PC), but I can do something about improving the outdoor program locally. I just can't register my daughters in Cub Scouts like they wanted to do.

[jmcquillan]

And thus, I am enlightened with regard to the GSUSA and its program. Thanks, Kevin. BTW, I don't have a daughter, so I never had the opportunity (or reason?).

[KL Wisconsin]

Point of clarification Kevin M

 

Dual registration is NOT required for a male youth to earn advancement in Boy Scouting as a member of a Crew/Ship. He is a member of BSA, period. That is part of the ambiguity that we have been talking about on this thread.

He can continue to earn merit badges and rank advancement without any troop affiliation provided he held rank of First Class before joining a Crew/Ship. The current BSA Handbook requirements for Star, Life and Eagle only states positions of responsibility within Boy Scout troops or Varsity Scout teams, which would make one think troop affiliation is required. But that is a misconception. I don't have a Venturing Crew Manual handy, but I can quote from the Sea Scout Manual. Page 84, Sea Scout Manual, 2000 Printing: "The Eagle Award. Eagle Scout is primarily a recognition for young men in Boy Scout troops. However, if you have attained the First Class rank in a Boy Scout troop, a male Sea Scout may continue to work toward the Eagle Scout Award, through age 17, by meeting the requirements described in the Boy Scout Handbook. Leadership requirements may be met in the ship as boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman or purser. Personal conferences, conducted by the Skipper and the board of review, for each progress award must be reviewed by the ship committee."

 

Hopefully, the next Boy Scout Handbook update will be more inclusive and state all the qualifying leadership positions instead of just troop and team positions. Until then, the confusion continues.

 

 

[KL Wisconsin]

Someone just asked me in an email if a Venturer can wear his Boy Scout rank patch (First class, Star, Life) on his Venturing crew uniform. The answer is no, nor any merit badges or merit badge sash.

The Eagle ribbon and religious ribbon can be worn.

 

To get back to the original question, I believe a male should be required to have troop affiliation for troop level activities such as rank advancement and merit badge work. One of the strengths of the Venturing program should be that it requires a Venturer to demonstrate and teach their knowledge to earn its awards. The most logical audience for this is a boy scout troop or a girl scout troop where a Venturer goes in and shows what he/she has learned and passes that knowledge on.

 

But I think the venturing program has plenty to offer in its Bronze, Gold and Silver awards and the Sea Scout ranks without "borrowing" from the Boy Scout program and having the male venturers working on merit badges within the venturing venue.

[yarrow]

Kevin makes some excellent points. There is a great deal of camping opportunities available to all Girl Scouts, not every girl or troop takes advantage of them. I have 3 girls in Girl Scouting and one boy in Boy Scouting. I am my son's troop Secretary having met all the requirement.....i.e. I was still breathing. And I was Webelo Den leader for 2 years and Program director for Cub Scout Day Camp. I have also led a number of Girl Scout troops for 6 years, and worked at 3 Day camps. I can tell you that the program for both groups is remarkably similar and that I have used the same activities for both Girl and Boy Scouts.

 

There are some differences though, most of which are in the structure of the organizations at the troop level. A Boy Scout troop has kids from 5th grade to 12th and so can have from 30 - 60 members on average. A lot of age difference and interest range. If you are lucky you will have about half that number of active adults as well. A Girl Scout troop will be about 12 - 24, although 12 is more likely. Within this troop you will have 3 grades typically and two to four active adults. More like a Den or Patrol. As a result the programs look different from Girl Scout troop to Girl Scout troop depending on the leadership and girls interests: camping, service, badges, leadership, or ideally all.

 

Boy Scouts have focused on Camping with some Service. Girl Scouts have focused on Service with some Camping. Many Girls who are interested in Camping may prefer the BSA approach and join Venturing later. Both groups offer badges and Leadership.

 

The Junior Girl Scout badges are very similar in difficulty and variety to Boy Scout Merit Badges and are accomplished comfortably by girls aged 10,11,12,and 13 this is probably why it is possible for an ambitious boy to earn his Eagle at 13. Girl Scouts earn other awards as well as badges culminating in a Silver award as a Cadette (13,14,15,16 year old) and a Gold Award as a Senior(used to be a Golden Eagle and then later a gold Eaglette award, I believe). In Girl Scouting a Gold Award can not be earned until the girl is in High School usually as a 17-18 year old. The ability of the older youth is reflected in the difficulty of achieving the award. Less badges are required (only 4, but most earn about 20-30) but other Challenges must be earned as well in Leadership, and in other areas including Career. The Gold requires a project, most frequently chosen in the service arena, less frequently a hammer and nails project. The girls must put in a minimum of 50 hours of their own time but over and above that others may help with the work on the project. Eagle projects vary as do Gold projects from 100 -3000 hours depending on how much the youth is capable of doing. Gold Award recipients tend to be upperclassmen in High School. Eagles vary but are most likely to be 14,15 year olds.

 

Each Senior Girl Scout badge has elements of skill, technology, career exploration, and Service. I think this was to encourage girls a number of years ago to consider technology and career, not as much of an issue currently. Every badge requires 3-10 hours of service which must be relevant to the badges area of interest. This makes the completion of badges an arduous task. The badges at this level tend to be less fun and more work than Boy Scout Merit Badges. Only those with a rare disease "collectomania" get more than 20 of this level of badge.

 

Anyway I have wandered off the path and given you more than you ever wanted to know about the differences in the Scouting organizations. When you see girls wanting to join venturing to have more high adventure you are seeing a small slice of the girl scout population that may not be getting that in their own "patrol sized" troop. Trust me there are troops that do a lot of high adventure and camp-camp-camp.

 

I am not sure you have the straight skinny on Venturing though. Here in the Denver Area Council the recipient of the First Silver Award was Amanda Bylsma from Venture Crew 911 so I know there are the same recognitions for both boys and girls. Girl and Boy Scouts aren't the same, but I believe in Venturing they can have a similar experience set up and run by the youth. In this way it can be whatever they want it to be.

[kdhoogland]

"We now have female adult volunteers regularly elected to the OA. However, for a youth member of scouting to be elected to OA, they must have earned the rank of First Class."

 

We have male adult leaders who are regularly elected to OA and were never scouts either.

[Kevin M]

I thought we were talking about Venturing, and the comparisons between BSA and GSUSA. I'll ignore the last borderline remark because I was "nominated" as an adult (adults are nominated by the troop committee, not elected like boys), and there are many fine adults, both male and female who work hard in our lodge.

Anyway, I just got back from a Girl Scout Service Unit Camporee (like a District Camporee),with about 7 troops present. We had canoeing, fishing, nature scavenger hunt, hiking, and fire building. The fire lays were demonstrated by an Eagle Scout dad, while I handled lighting the evening campfire with flint and steel. And EVERY troop's firelay started with ONE match! The closing campfire had funny skits, songs, run-ons (by me), awards, and stories (by me). Overall, a great outdoors weekend, comparable to last weekends District Comporee with my 2 sons. As I said before, Girl Scouts CAN have an exciting outdoors program if the leaders provide the opportunity.

Now if we can just get GSUSA to adopt a decent male leaders' uniform.

[jacksowi]

There is no rule that says the male Venturer has to finish up his Eagle requirements, that's an option left up to him. It's the cherry on the sundae. So a female Venturer can't earn the Eagle, big whoop. Neither can a male Venturer who's never been a Boy Scout or completed First Class. It's not a question of fairness, not everything has to be politically correct. It's an option for the male to continue to work on his Eagle if he wants without having to spend additional time with a troop he may have outgrown. As a matter of fact, a Venturing Crew doesn't have to be co-ed.

 

The same can be said about OA. If the scout or a male/female scouter was a member of the OA before the moved into Venturing, then they can still hold membership. The Order of the Arrow is a Boy Scout program and not a Venturing Program. No Venturer will be ever elected, nor will any Advisor be nominated, into the OA as a Venturer as the program exists at this time, whether they are male or female.

 

Let the Venturers concentrate on the Venturing Awards program and not worry about the Boy Scout Awards program. I don't think there is a real problem with the female or for a male wanting to earn the Eagle as a Venturer. From what I have observed in this neck of the woods, Venturers aren't concerned with the advancement program as much as getting outdoors and doing it. I know it's not the same in all parts of the country, but it is in this area.

[yarrow]

I am still laughing about Kevin's uniform remark. There will never be a decent adult male GS uniform, I'm pretty sure, as there has never been a suitable/popular Girl Scout uniform. Most girls are terribly clothes conscious. Uniforms are not pushed as much and the girls don't necessarily favor the "Pseudo-military" style of uniform.

 

When leggings were in they had a uniform incorporating leggings. Skorts are still popular and with the advent of more private and charter schools the khaki and polo shirt look is in. The new uniforms look just like these school uniforms. We have had jumpers, skorts, shorts, one-piece dresses (before girls were allowed to wear pants in school), turtle necks, t-shirts, vests, dress shirts, polos, pants, leggings, sweaters, and a variety of ties, bows and hats. Can't make a girl wear a uniform.

 

I think most venturing is beyond uniforms, yes? Or do they too have uniforms?

[jacksowi]

The Girl Scouts do have a neat looking forest green Blazer, at least in the catalog pictures. And you don't have to beat Tiger Woods to get one. Venturers do have an official uniform although the crews can decide to make their own if they wish too. The only requirement then would be that the whole crew had to wear it.

 

The Venturing pants/short are what the Boy Scout pant/shorts should be like, lots of pockets. It's a charcoal gray color. The back pockets can have the inside thread cut to enlarge the depth, like the shorts Columbia made for Philmont in the past. The shirt is like the Explorer Kelly Green shirt