Proper Patrol Emblems

[scoutldr]

Very few Scouts can afford a campaign hat, which has a distinctive BSA headband, pin device and National seal stamped on the sweatband.. The overseas cap is no longer produced. And I've NEVER been mistaken for a Marine.

[hops_scout]

Just b/c we may not have been mistaken for a Marine, doesnt mean that our uniform isnt similar to theirs. It is extremely similar, in fact I wish it wasnt so similar.

 

 

Anyway, that kind of sounds like a law that is there, but isnt enforced. One thing that I know would be similar is the "no camo or military equipment in BSA".

 

 

[FScouter]

The uniforms policies of BSA are enforced every day ... by those that wear the uniform. Those that wear the uniform incorrectly, with the knowledge they do so, are choosing to ignore uniform policy. No one is going to be arrested for wearing military insignia on the Boy Scout uniform. But that doesn't make it OK.

[hops_scout]

So you are saying now that if a patrol was to decide that they wanted to use, say, the 101st patch as their patrol and call themselves the Screaming Eagles or whatever, that they would be out of uniform b/c it is a military item? What about if they did what someone else suggested and use the pin to place it onto the blank patrol emblem???

 

Suit yourself.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Very few Scouts can afford a campaign hat,"

 

So? That's like saying that since very few people can afford Ferraris the laws don't apply to them

 

"which has a distinctive BSA headband, pin device"

 

Optional and optional.

 

"The overseas cap is no longer produced."

 

So? It's still a leagal cap.

 

"And I've NEVER been mistaken for a Marine."

 

So? Does that mean that the uniform is not similar to a Marine Corps uniform?

 

 

[NWScouter]

Serving coffee at a rest stop on I-5, I was mistaken for a cop by an Asian family from Canada.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Serving coffee at a rest stop on I-5, I was mistaken for a cop by an Asian family from Canada. "

 

Somehow, I see this as a possible scene in a Chevy Chase movie.

 

[willysjeep]

The campaign hat of the BSA and that of the army from the 1900's to 20's are identical. In fact, they were produced at the same factory and originally came with no pin at all. Once you earned your first class pin you could put it on your hat. The hatband and sweatband are more modern additions. Nobody has actually taken the time to make the two diferent, so the military contractor that now makes them and the BSA contractor are essentially making hats to the exact same specifications.

 

For mackinac island service camp one year my patrol was "D patrol" until we changed our name to "delta force patrol". Our patrol leader got us all big square delta force patches which we put elastic arm bands on. We looked like dorks probably but it was a memorable fun time.

 

It's sort of a hard call I guess. I mean, you are a boyscout, not a soldier, but then again, it is a youth run organization more than anything else.

[Eamonn]

I think that I'm with FScouter on this.

Yes there are the rules. Most of us or many of us know the rules and are aware of them. Some of us do things by the rules, however we do at times stray. I have a Heinz 57 pickle pin on my red wool jacket. I know it has no right to be there. It was given to me by a Wood Badge staffer many years ago. It is small enough to go unnoticed. I have one Scout shirt with one of the knots upside down. Yes it is glued and sewed on!!

Many good Scouters that I know do have their red jackets covered with patches and there is an assortment of belts that people choose to wear.

The penalty for not wearing the uniform can be not scoring very high on a uniform inspection or having someone look at you with raised eyebrows and then shake their head.

I think that adding military patches to a Scout uniform is not a good thing. It isn't allowed but then nor is my pickle pin. Comes down to people in glass houses...

Eamonn

[BobwhiteSR518]

I'd like to thank everyone who replied to my question. I still think the military patch is a bad idea and the Scoutmaster agrees with me. (I am a committee member.) However, the Committee Chair now says that the patches are okay because they do not have identifying numbers or lettering on them. His son (a Patrol leader)and the ASPL both are sporting these patches--not so much as Patrol emblems, but to indicate that they are members with the longest service. They want newer members to wear a different military emblem and members with service in between to wear a different patch--even though they may be in the same patrol. My son, the SPL, has been in the troop a full year longer than any of the other boys and hasn't agreed to wear the military patch--mainly because of pressure from me--but he wants to fit in with the rest of the guys.

I know that badges of rank indicate experience and I see no need for these military "patrol emblems". Besides, members of the troop leadership--SPL, ASPL, etc.--are not supposed to wear patrol emblems anyway, right?

[Fat Old Guy]

The uniform already has an indication of how long someone has been in Scouting, it's the service star.

 

 

[FScouter]

I don't see how any way one could justify these military insignias as being "patrol patches" particularly since the idea is to have several different patches for any one patrol based on length of service.

 

Perhaps more objectionable is the idea that one or two boys in the troop are lobbying the other boys to adopt the practice. In my mind, troop practices should be adopted by the troop, through a decision of the Patrol Leaders' Council.

 

The SM could suggest that the SPL put the topic on the PLC meeting agenda. I'd expect the proponents to provide some sort of argument supported by something in the Handbook or Insignia Guide. The SM should also advise them that they cannot make decisions or adopt practices that are contrary to the rules and policies of BSA. Let the boys hash out amongst themselves whether the practice is within the scope and purpose of patrol patches, and supported by BSA. If they were to decide "wrong", at least they arrived at the conclusion through a correct process.

 

The opinion of the committee chair should carry no weight at all.

 

An alternative to putting these patches on the Scout uniform might be to put them on a troop t-shirt, or on a brag rag, backpack, or maybe the patrol flag.

 

[gcshaw]

Does anyone know where we can get some black bear patrol emblems custom-made for a reasonable price? That is name chosen by one of our patrols and they found an old (1927-1933) design of the bear standing up (on a red background) that they like. Only problem is that when I called the 800 # in the Scoutstuff catalog I found that the custom emblems are $5.60 each. That seems quite expensive.

[Bob White]

As someone in that industry I can tell you that is a very fair price considering the limited quantity and the fact that most embroiderers would add a miinimum $45 digitizing fee. You could try shopping around but you probably will not find a better deal on that particular item.

 

BW

 

 

[ozemu]

I have been mistaken for a National Parks Ranger a few times this year. I wear my uniform at all Scout events except canoeing.

 

This will not be a problem in the near future as our unifrom is changing to polo shirt style. I am likely to be mistaken for a McDonalds or Hunger Jacks supervisor instead.

 

Maybe the new uniform WILL help with recruitment of more young people? Good idea Aust Nat HQ!(This message has been edited by ozemu)