Venture Crew Uniform- Required BSA ?

[boleta]

The Venturing Crew uniform is whatever the members of the crew decide it is. In our Crew (all young men so far) it is a Venturing shirt, and any khaki pants or shorts. There is no mention of shoes, socks, belt or hat so any and all are acceptable. As advisor, I advise. But, I will not say to the guys- "you must wear dress shoes" or any such thing as it is their decision.

ps If they decide to wear campaign hats, I see nothing wrong with it. Again, it is their decision.

[SR540Beaver]

Just for clarification. No one is saying that Venturers can not wear a campaign hat. I think what is being said is that they shouldn't wear the official Boy Scout campaign hat since it is a part of the Boy Scout uniform and reserved for that program within BSA. If they want to go down to the surplus store and buy a hat, no problem.

[BPwannabe@137]

I can't believe that there is a group of scouts (ventures) that might want to wear a campaign hat and we are fighting about if they can. My God-let them wear the hats-they are one of the signature items of a traditional scout uniform.

 

As a side note, for anyone who cares, when I was a Sea Explorer in the 1980's, we wore dark green explorer shirts with campaign hats when camping (we called it shipwreak training). We came to this custom by looking at old photos of US Navy personnel on "land duty" during WW1 and they wore USMC uniforms with campaign hats. Just an example of how warped minded we were (and yes-some of us did hat the doughboy helmets too-they are after all steel campaign hats).

[SR540Beaver]

No one is arguing over whether they can wear "a" campaign hat or not. The question is whether they can or should adopt a uniform part from a BSA program other than their own. Would you put a Boy Scout in a blue Cub shirt? Would you put a Cub in olive pants? Would you put Boy Scout in Venture gray pants? The Boy Scout uniform is the Boy Scout uniform. Wear a campaign hat by all means, just not the official Boy Scout campaign hat. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can't imagine a bunch of kids wanting to wear it on a regular basis. If it were me, I'd opt for a straw version over the felt to help beat the heat. Plus, a straw version would look better with the dark green shirt than the official BSA hat.

[OldGreyEagle]

FOG, I can't remember where I heard it, but I do remember an old proverb that went along the lines of "... it is ill to speak of the dead..."

 

so, can you show me where BW wrote

 

"BW has pointed out that it isn't our job to judge the spirit of the rules, only to abide by the rules as they are written."

 

I don't remember him saying that, but he could have, but if he isnt going to participate in this little clam bake, why reference him at all?

 

[Eamonn]

I really don't care what uniform a Crew decides to go with. I think that it is great that they are there and that we have a program that they want. This game is bigger then the uniform. In fact uniform is not listed as a method of Venturing.

I do think just as it would be wrong for a Crew to decide that the Boy Scout uniform shirt with green tabs the same goes for the campaign hat.I feel sure that hidden away some where there is a ruling on this, I just don't know where to look. If I find it I will post it.

Still at the end of the day I feel sure even if this Crew isn't allowed to officially allowed to wear this hat, the worst that is going to happen is a few raised eyebrows.

I have two of these hats and find them to be a right royal pain. They need to be covered when it's raining and I lose the rain cover. They take up way too much room in the hat press.I can't wear it in the car, so it needs a seat to sit on or it goes in the boot, and silly as I look without a hat, I look even sillier in it. Not to mention the cost.

Eamonn.

[BPwannabe@137]

Eamonn,

 

If you possess an official (and very expensive) campaign hat, I agree-you don't want to get it wet. You would want to keep it pressed and clean. However, if anyone owns a cheaper one, by all means wear it in the rain. Let it get floppy and soft. Thats what they were supposed to look like (see original photos of scouts and soldiers in the eairly 20th century). Of course, its not "official" but I think it looks alot better then some of those fancy ball caps the BSA is selling for $23.00 that look great in "civies" but terrible in the field uniform. (23.00-dam near close to the cost of an unofficial campaign hat).

 

You are very correct with the tan shirt and green tabs. I remember seeing that in some regulation but I can't place were I saw it either.

 

One final note to muddy the waters on campaign hats. BP disappointed alot of boys at Brownsea Island. He didn't wear his trademark hat but instead experimented with a folding cloth cap which he thought was more practical for young boys. The BSA in its infancy sold campaign hats made of cotton duck (the army hat the same style) for summer wear and it could be folded and stored-much like a bonnie cap.

 

Ok, I will shut up now. In the end, I think everyone is right. You can't wear an official Boy scout hat with the venture uniform. But you can wear an unofficial one since ventures can design their own uniforms, or have none since uniforms are an optional part of the program.

 

Now I will shut up.

[Fat Old Guy]

OGE,

 

I wasn't aware that BW had died. As much as I dislike arrogant and pedantic book thumpers, I wished him no physical harm.

 

I'm sure that his family and his council will miss him.

[dana_renner]

Good evening all: On page 332 of the Venturing Leader Manual

under uniforms and insignia, Venturers can wear the suggested uniform the spruce green short sleeve shirt with green shoulder loops and either the charcoal gray shorts or long pants. This also

applies to the advisors and other adults on the crew committee, and District,Council,Division and national adult leaders related to the

Venturing program and they can wear shoulder loops related to the crew(green)district (silver) council and national (gold). However uniform if any is the choice of the crew. There is no mention of headgear or anything else. There is a policy known as Distinctive

Dress Identity where a crew can choose any kind of uniform they want. And as in everything in Venturing this is a democratic choice by the entire crew. So in the spirit of Venturing a campaign hat could be ok whether it is USMC, or Boy Scout. If the crew wants it.

 

[Eamonn]

OK,

A Crew can if they want wear: Pink Socks, lederhosen,tie-dye t-shirt and a pink campaign hat.

If that is the uniform they want to go with.

They can not opt to wear the Cub Scout uniform.

They can not opt to wear the Boy Scout uniform.

If they are wearing the Green Venturing uniform they can not or should not wear the Campaign hat. Just as Cub Scouters should not wear the campaign hat.

Eamonn.

[boleta]

I understand both sides of the argument here. Eamonn makes a very reasonable point.

 

But, if my Venturers decide to wear a BSA campaign hat because they think it is cool, then they can and will. I am just their advisor. I advise. That's the difference in Venturing. It says that the uniform is completely up to them to decide what it will be.

 

ps This would never happen in my Crew. They hate wearing hats in general and would probably wear ballcaps if they had to.

[BadenP]

Eamonn

I hate to disagree with you but you are wrong in this case, according to my friend at the National office the official campaign hat is allowed with the official Venture green uniform, as well with any adult scouter position official uniform. If the Ventures do not elect the official green uniform then another hat is suggested.But as another poster stated so correctly most crews elect not to wear any hat.

[halikiki]

I'm joining this discussion late, but as a new advisor I was looking into the possibility of saving our crew several hundred dollars by simply purchasing the green epilets or shoulder boards and putting them on BSA tan uniforms.

 

If uniforms are choses by the crews, what is the problem with this?

 

I've had our District Venture person say someone at national said this was a definite no go.....

 

Doesn't make sense given the arguments ya'll ar making about the hats.

[Eagle92]

Ok I am late to the discussion as well but here is my $.02 worth.

 

1) In reference to the campaign hat, please show me a reference in ANY version of the Insignia Control Guide that says you cannot wear a campaign hat with a Venturing uniform. Cub Scouters can wear it, Scouts and Scouters can wear it, and Venturers and their advisers can wear it. I been wearing my Smokey Bear with my green and gray lately.

 

FWIW I would use the BSA's Expedition hat and put a Venturing pin on it. The hat is crushable, water proof, and looks AWESOME with the Venturing uniform.

 

2) In reference to khaki shirt and green loops, while at one time that was Ok and allowed by national, that was during the Explorer period. With Venturing it is the green shirt only now.

 

3) Once upon a time, Venturing did not have official gray shorts (they came out in August 1999) nor official gray pants (they came out in August 2000). When I attended the 1998 NLTC, which formally introduced the Venturing Program, I was told by the then national director of venturing that "any gray shorts or pant would do." So I got my green venturing strip to cover my Exploring strip, and purchased a pair of gray shorts and gray pants to wear with the uniform. I still have and wear both.

 

4) I have seen a Venture crew use gray BDU trousers for their uniform pants. The crew established the gray BDU pants prior to national coming out with official pants. For the sake of uniformity (and also cost) they kept the BDU pants since "were allowed by national." Don't know if they got any complaints or not as I was no longer affiliated with the unit, but at the Eagle COH I attended later on, The Crew members were all in BDU pants and no one from council complained.

[Crew21_Adv]

Fellow Scouters,

 

Greetings!

 

After my initial response. I suddenly realized this is a revived posting from 2004. But here is a recent comment from the Insignia Guide and Scoutstuff.org regarding Venturing and the campaign hat.

 

I had to look at this a little bit. The minor controversy over Venturers wearing the campaign hat. I have swapped out the pin device on my campaign hat a few times, as I've attended ceremonies in my Scout uniform and other times in my Venturing uniform.

 

As part of the First Class Emphasis, the large standard metal pin, No. �00017, has been reinstated as an option to the cloth First Class rank badge. The large pin also may be worn only by boys on the front of the campaign hat, No. �501, and the expedition hat, No. �637. Adults may wear the adult universal hat pin, No. �50150, on the campaign hat and the expedition hat. No other pins may be worn on official headgear of the BSA.

 

 

Proudly display your Venturing membership with the handsome solid pewter hat pin. The Venturing logo is cast in pewter, featuring a brushed finish and double clutch-back closure. This pin can be worn on the Boy Scout campaign hat or expedition hat. 7/8" square. Packaged in a Scoutstuff clamshell.

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)