New Class A/"Field" Uniforms?

[Eamonn]

As often happens on the Internet with Scouting. People start out with BSA rules and policy and then add their own two cents worth.

The case of Cub Scouts being allowed to wear the tan shirt has never ever been allowed.

While I have every respect for Mr Walton, you will see that very often he adds his own views on what he thinks. While some of the ideas are good, they are not and should not be confused with the policy's of the BSA.

As for the memos about uniform National Supply send out a lot of memos. If you look on the Scout Stuff web page you will have seen the memo sent out about the change in Tiger Uniforms. National Supply has also sent out memos telling people to disregard the last memo.

I will not go so far as to call Mr. Walton a lier. I will say that he is wrong. He has in the past been asked to show evidence of this memo and has been unable to do so.

There are a lot of good people in this organization who have as much time in serving this organization as Mr Walton, many with a lot more. I know several people who can match his awards in Scouting, several who are active serving on various committees of the National Council. These people know Scouting but do not profess to know all that there is to know. Being employed by the BSA does not make anyone an expert on everything that there is in Scouting. Sure there are people like the Man Of Steele who used to post in these forums, who know more then a lot of DE's. In our Council at this time we don't have any what might be termed "Experts". If they need to know something they ask someone who has the knowledge or they look it up in materials that come from the BSA. A lot of times the people with the knowledge are employed by the National Office. Still even these highly respected people don't know everything. They are human and make mistakes. Sometime back I was talking with a "High Ranking" employee of the National Office about Venturing and he wasn't aware that a parent signature wasn't needed on a Venturing Youth application. To be fair, he doesn't work in the Venturing Division. He did phone the guy in charge and asked.

I have no interest what so ever in dueling with anyone. The people who work in the Cub Scout Division at the National Office have no knowledge about any memo. They agree that the tan shirt has only ever been for adults, Boy Scouts and Webelos Scouts. How do I know this? I just got off the phone from talking with them.

It would seem that either the girl in the National Office or Mr Walton are suffering from selective memory.

Eamonn.

[Fat Old Guy]

"I will not go so far as to call Mr. Walton a lier. I will say that he is wrong. He has in the past been asked to show evidence of this memo and has been unable to do so."

 

That's because he's been involved in a "war," "pacification" or whatever the mess in Iraq is call.

[BSA_Bugler]

FScouter-"There has been no accusation within this thread of anyone being a "liar". I see this term tossed out quite frequently in our society today, and frankly I find the accusation to be offensive."

 

Eamonn-"The mention of some memo that could have been wrong to start with doesn't make him right. Even if this was ever true, which I'm sure it never was."

 

I was not trying to be "offensive". If one gives a testimony and another says, "Even if this was ever true, which I'm sure it never was", that may not be "calling" the one a "liar", but it is certainly defacto implied! Perhaps I just interpreted the statement incorrectly. It's one thing to say, "based on my research I don't concur your facts" it's a totally different thing to say, "Even if this [your facts] was ever true, which I'm sure it [your facts] never was".

 

This can be spun any way you want to, but down here in Mississippi we call that calling someone a liar! We should all be careful when asserting that someone has promulgated an untruth and we are "sure" of it.

 

[FScouter]

Maybe in other parts of the country terms like liar are used more loosely than what Im accustomed to. If something is not true, that does not make it a lie. Eamonn has questioned the accuracy of the contents of a memo, and that doesnt seem to be the same thing pointing a finger at a person and shouting LIAR. It simply means that he believes the memo to be not correct. It could be incorrect for lots of reasons. Maybe it was correct in 1973, but is not correct today. Maybe the guy that wrote it had incorrect information. Who knows? It doesnt really matter. Maybe Eamonns belief is not correct. The point is that no one is accusing anyone of lying.

 

I find terms like liar youre a liar, thats a lie, hes lying to be highly charged and almost always inappropriate, and certainly not appropriate in this case.

[Fat Old Guy]

The memo couldn't have been written in 1973 because the tan shirt wasn't in use at that time. The person that wrote that memo was the director of the Cub Scout program.

 

Now we need to ask how could it be correct then and not now? It seems to be commonly accepted that "once a uniform, always a uniform" (even though none of us have seen that memo). Following that logic, if was legal for Cub Scouts to wear the tan shirt for even one day, then they must be allowed to wear the tan shirt for all time.

[Eamonn]

Mr Walton does say that Cub Scout Packs can if they choose opt to have all their members wear the tan shirt.

I say this is not the case and never has been the case.

Mr Walton talks about various memos send out by National Supply. National Supply sends out a lot of memos during the course of a year.

I phoned the Cub Scout division and they agree that Cub Scouts wear the Cub Scout shirt which is blue. Webelos Scout may wear the tan shirt. When asked if there was ever a memo from National Supply saying that Packs could wear the tan shirt they have no knowledge of it and question what National Supply has to do with setting the uniform.

I have no idea where Mr Walton received his information. I am 100% sure that he had nothing to gain by posting this on the Internet.

While I have every reason to admire the good folk who live in Mississippi for their high ethical standards. I fail to see that I have called anyone a lier or have accused anyone of telling lies. I have said that they are wrong and might be the recipient of flawed information. I have also gone on to say that if you want to ensure that the information you are getting about Scouting is correct go to the materials put out by the BSA.

Eamonn

[Fat Old Guy]

"When asked if there was ever a memo from National Supply saying that Packs could wear the tan shirt they have no knowledge of it."

 

I am reminded of an exchange with a clerk at a store. The store had been changed around since I had been in it last which was well over a year before. I commented on the changes and the clerk said, "No, it's always been like this." I asked how long he'd been working there and he responded, "about a month."

 

Did you ask the person if they were there in 1996 when the memo was supposedly written? Did you ask them to look for the memo?

 

I am also reminded of an exchange that I had with an employee of the federal government when I called her office for clarification of a rule. Her response was, "there's no rule like that." I said that I was pretty sure that there was but she said, "honey, I've been here 20 years and there's no rule like that." I jumped on the internet, found the reference, and called the lady back. After I gave her the appropiate reference numbers she looked it up and said, "I never knew that. I'll get back to you."

 

By the way, that memo didn't come from Supply.

[BSA_Bugler]

"U-N-C-L-E"

 

Nobody called anybody a liar. The accuracy of the info was called into question, fair enough.

 

Botton line: I'm still not wearing a New Class A/"Field" Uniform, if "it's yellow" and "it looks gay"!

[dsteele]

Man of Steele?

 

Sounds like a comic book character to me.

 

Unc.

[Eamonn]

He was /is a funny little fellow.

Gone on now to the ranks of the dearly departed. However parts of his wise words can still be found in the Scouter Forum archives.

I was hoping that maybe he would get transfered to my neck of the woods. He was known for his fine needle work ans sewing skills. I was hoping that he would sew the odd patch on for me.

Still where ever you are Man Of Steele, know that I wish you well and to this day regret calling you a twit. Of course that was in the days before the forum became a kinder, gentler place.

Eamonn.

[OldGreyEagle]

Hey Eamonn, I remember the Man of Steele and if he ever comes back, you can call him a twit all you want, honest

[fotoscout]

How about all those new Webelos parents that just spent around $100 because BSA decieded to change the Webelos uniform!!!!!!!!!

 

Way to go BSA.....stong words to follow &^%$#@!!@#%^&*

[acco40]

Are not Webelos Cub Scouts? Also, have you noticed that no politicians lie anymore (Eamonn that's liAr, not liEr), they just miss spoke.

[Fat Old Guy]

"How about all those new Webelos parents that just spent around $100 because BSA decieded to change the Webelos uniform!!!!!!!!!"

 

Did I miss something here? I thought that with the exception of the cap and a minor change in the neckerchief that the Webelos uniform hadn't changed since 1980. Blue uniform or khaki & green are both okay.

 

 

[BPwannabe@137]

OK-I am glad this thread is not dead. The original question has been bugging me for weeks. So I ask again:

 

1. Is there an expected change in the field uniform. Why?

2. If there is; what's the change. I too believe they are going to tan pants. If thats all, no big deal (I'll still wear olive though). If they make the construction better, thats great. But yellow??? Or worse yet-pullovers like the Brits or Aussies.

3. New webeloes uniform? Never heard of that.

 

I suggest that all us dedicated scouters look into this rumor and gather some intelligence. If they are attempting to make the uniform look "gay" (sorry for the use of the phrase but it works), we need to stop it now. I polled over 60 boys this summer and they all said that yellow is only cool on the womens shirt. End of story.

 

How about some of you scouters in the great state of Texas look around and gather some intel. Since you are closer to National, maybe you can find out. Big_Dog, do you accept the mission?

 

This memo will self destruct in 5 seconds....