evmori Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Interesting question, acco40. Yes the SPL should do something. And it should be to sit the two Scouts down, explain the rules and expect them to be followed. No reason why they weren't in uniform is required. Yes the SM should do something. The same thing the SPL did with the two Scouts! Bob's posted while I was typing! Sounds like Mr. White is advocating breaking the rule council set forth! Should he be tossed out of Scouting for breaking the rules? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Ed, It wasn't a rule, it was a recommendation......and an unreasonable one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 SR540Beaver, Why is it unreasonable? And aren't there "recommendations" in the G2SS we take as gospel? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 It strikes me as being a little odd that many people will wear the BSA shirt but not the pants or shorts. No matter what uniform you opt to wear, be it the Field Uniform or the Activity Uniform. Unless you have the BSA pants or shorts and socks, you are not in uniform. At the National Jamboree, we ask the Scouts to bring two complete Field Uniforms, and enough Scout socks and shorts for ten days. We allow time and provide the equipment for the Scouts to do laundry or as happened in 2001 a kind parent took a car full back to the motel and did it for them. The participants wear the activity uniform most of the time and wear the Field uniform for meals, ceremonies and traveling. Most summer camps are six days so having the right amount of uniforms really ought not be a problem. Why not include the cost of the extra uniforms in the camp fee? Eamonn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I am not surprised that the camp guide recommended the scouts be in uniform, but I am surprised that they specified the field uniform. Not only is a correct activity uniform every bit as "in uniform" as the field version but it would be more appropriate to the activities of a summer camp. Also the current recommendation stands in contrast to the information found in the official BSA resources as to the purpose and use of the field uniform. Since this is only the camp's recommendation I see no problem with the unit making a decision that reflects the BSA uniform standards and wearing an activity uniform for the informal activities and the field uniform at meals and ceremonies as requested. Besides that, if Acco's transcript is accurate the camp recommends the field uniform "100% of the time". HMMMMM that could make it tough for those scouts going from the swimming pool to a meal at the dining hall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Ed, As I stated before, many scouts only own one uniform and wear it 1.5 hours per week. A scout is clean. Wearing the uniform from sunup to sundown for 7 days is not clean. I know scouts who can funk up a uniform in about 30 seconds. As you've pointed out, you can't require a scout to purchase a uniform. How are you going to make him buy 3 or 4 if you can't get him to buy even 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 SR540Beaver, I'm not the one setting the requirement. The camp is! Besides that, if Acco's transcript is accurate the camp recommends the field uniform "100% of the time". HMMMMM that could make it tough for those scouts going from the swimming pool to a meal at the dining hall! Not really. The Scout wears his uniform to swimming with his trunks already on & underware in hand. After swimming, he goes commando till he gets to the dining hall (providing this isn't a patrol cooking camp which it should be) where he slips into the restroom & puts on his undies! Shouldn't be a problem since a Scout is always prepared! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 The leader's guide for the camp our troop is attending says "Official Scout Uniform is appropriate dress at anytime during the week. The camp especially encourages Scouts and adults to wear their uniforms when arriving at camp, during dinner, at campfires and when leaving camp." Funny it doesn't mention the morning flag raising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 You make the call - SM should ask the adult why no uniform. SPL should ask the scouts why they are not wearing the uniform. I just spent a week at JLTC. Every youth staffer (38) wore the complete uniform from Sunday until Saturday. (some of them where pretty ripe by Friday, had to suggest strongly that they do laundry, before the closing ceremony) Most participants wore complete uniforms for the entire conference. 2 participants did not have scout shorts or pants. Their unit SM made a big deal about it before the conference that they do not wear scout pants or shorts or socks in the unit. His biggest worry was that the staff would pick on the scouts for not having pants or shorts, the staff did not, but the 2 patrols that these scouts where in, where disappointed every morning when the patrol failed uniform inspection. They where expecting to receive a pass, they did not, they keep saying the SM said it would be OK. I think if they where going to do it again they would have a uniform. There where 2 other scouts without pants or shorts or socks, but the patrol got together for the morning flag ceremony and shared extra uniform pieces among them to pass inspection. If 6 13 year old scouts that have never meet each other before, and after 3 days of being together, can get 2 other scouts in a complete uniform out in the middle of the woods!!! what is your excuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Ed, With all due respect, do you not understand the difference between the word "recommend" and "require"? You keep saying that the camp requires a full uniform 100% of the time. That is not what was presented. The wording said recommends. BSA recommends scouts wearing full uniforms, but units such as yours decide to wear just the shirt and call it the uniform. Would you do differently if it was "required"? As long as it is recommended, it is open to being followed or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Dan, COOL! We have a brand new troop just two weeks old. Of the 8 boys, 7 were Webelos who crossed over to a different troop in February before we started this troop. Uniforming in their old Packs and in their old Troop was pretty lax. We have made our intent known to the boys that we desire to be a fully uniformed troop. My son's best friend says no way, no how. I have a feeling that when he is the only one showing up ut of uniform, he will eventually change his tune. My son was just elected PL last night and is in the process of selecting scouts for POR's. His friend wants to be Quartermaster. My son pointed out to him in the PL Handbook that scouts holding POR's are to support the wearing of the full uniform enthusiastically. Sometimes peer pressure can be a good thing. Plus there is strength in numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouting-nerd Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 "Therefore any unit requiring their Scout or leaders to be in full uniform (mine included) are adding to the requirements! Example Johnny Tenderfoot shows up for his BOR in a tee shirt & shorts. The SM tells Johnny Tenderfoot he can't have his BOR because his is not in full uniform. Being in full uniform isn't a requirement for ANY rank!" In my council for the Eagle Board of Review if you don't show up in full "Class A" Uniform you fail your BOR. In compliance with that my troop committee has decided that if a scout will not take the time to at least put on the uniform shirt, then they are not going to waiste their time in talking to him. It is the committee's decision as to whomever they pass for their BOR. YIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Hi scouting-nerd, Let's clear up some misunderstandings using information available in BSA resources rather than personal opinions. First requiring a full uniform is not a violation of any BSA policy. If anyone thinks it is, I would welcome them to post it here. A unit for example can require that all its members have and wear a complete field uniform at every troop meeting in order to be a member. Adding to or subtracting from advancement requirements is a violation of the advancement policies. To require a scout to wear anything specifically in order to advance is a violation, whether you require a full uniform or a plaid shirt. The Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual says that "a scout should appear neat in his appearance and his uniform should be as correct as possible" and that is all anyone in your council can require. Now what does the BSA require as to the uniform? In the Cub Scout Leader Handbook it says that you should "wear the complete uniform or no uniform at all". The Boy Scout Handbook says (and this gets a little wordy) "The complete uniform includes the Scout long-sleeved, or short-sleeved shirt, the Scout Pants or shorts, Scout belt and buckle, Scout socks or knee socks, a neckerchief and cap or campaign hat are optional." note that the cap is optional something many posters seem to miss. It then goes on to say "Wear full uniform for all ceremonies and indoor activities, such as troop meetings, courts of honor and most other functions. The uniform should also be worn during special outdoor occasions, such as Scout shows, flag ceremonies and special times at summer camp" I call your attention to the last line, "special times" at summer camp, not 100% of the time. It then describes the Activity uniform. "For outdoor activities, scouts may wear troop or camp t-shirts with scout pants or shorts". So at no time in any BSA publication is a mixed uniform/street clothing suggested or supported. Nor are the words Class A or Class B used. And nothing suggests that a scout must be in complete uniform to advance. The National Honor Patrol Award does require that 75% of the members of the patrol wear complete and correct uniforms. So how do you get the troop members into a complete uniform short of making it a requirement for membership? That is what leadership is all about. For that question the best answer is training. Hope this helps, Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 scouting-nerd, Then your council & Troop are adding to the requirement. A uniform is not required for any rank INCLUDING Eagle. SR540Beaver, I am not requiring anything! The camp is making the recommendation Scouts wear their field uniforms 100% of the time! Like I have said. I like the uniform & think it should be required in the BSA. If it was, then we wouldn't be having this discussion! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleta Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Bob White says it well. And very clearly. Also, uniform inspections are required twice yearly for Quality Unit recognition. The troop can require uniforms at meetings. This is not adding to the advancement requirements. The Board of Review is held after the requirements are complete. An Eagle Board of Review in our district would be halted if the Scout were not in full "field" uniform (thanks Bob). Again, Scouts that appear in "mixed" uniforms with blue jeans, etc. look silly to most of us who are always in full uniforms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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