Uniforms for those who can not afford them

[eagle54]

Have your units had sucess with programs to provide uniforms for those who can not afford them

 

I looked at the prices asked on Ebay for scout uniforms.

 

It can be expensive for a family to provide uniforms for a growing boy.

[FScouter]

We did a carwash to earn money to help pay for uniform parts.

[Eamonn]

Oh Boy, here I go again back on my high horse.

Let me start by saying that I am a very hard nosed left winger.

The District that I serve and live in is not what you might call affluent. Looking at the median household income for the town where I live I see that in 2000 it was $32,000 a year. With 97.8 of the population being white.Population 4,772. The big town in our District with a population of 9,146.With 94.2% of these being white has a median household income of $21,070 a year.Again for the year 2000.

The cost of an entire new Boy Scout Uniform including Boy Scout Handbook and using shorts is $122.60. I just used the assemble a Scout uniform on the Scout Stuff Web Page.

As a District we have people who are willing to help any Scout or his family who can't afford a uniform. All the Leaders are aware of this. We very rarely receive a request. In fact we have had only one this year and that was from a family who had lost there house in a fire.

In our Council Service Center there is a rack full of donated uniforms, no one seems to want them.

Most troops offer the Scouts more then ample opportunities to raise money I don't think raising $122.60 poses that much of a challenge.

What we need to focus on is providing such a great program that the Scout and his parents will want to spend the money on the uniform.

BTW, If you are looking for cheap uniform shorts go to the Jamboree close out page on the uniform stuff web site.

Uniforming and the cost of uniform is only a big deal if we allow it to be a big deal. For the handful of Scouts that really can't afford it the money is out there if you ask.

A complete Scout uniform is about the same price as three cartons of cigarettes!!

I'll get of that horse now.

Eamonn

[Fat Old Guy]

I live in a fairly affluent area, median income of about a $gazillion and we have people who drive up to the troop meetings in the $40,000 SUVs and complain about the cost of Scouting and then tell you about their cruise over spring break.

 

I always find it interesting that families have no problem paying for cell phones for their kids (Hey, it's only $10 a month) or extra digital cable drops for their kids (hey, it's only $10 a month) or weekly haircuts to keep the buzz cut short (Hey, it's only $10 a month) but won't shell out $35 a year for Scout pants.

[FScouter]

Maybe they don't feel compelled to buy the pants because they heard some numbskull say there is no "guideline" to wear the uniform.

[eagle54]

It has been my observation that if I am given something I am less likely to care of it than if I have bought it myself.

 

How would it work if there as a uniform exchange when scout outgrows a uniform he could then receive credit for a percentage of the retail value of unifor.

 

It would be great if there was information on where the profits of the sale of offical scout things go. It is my understanding that the profit go to provide retirement and death benefits for professional scouters.

 

Do commissioners still do uniform inspection of units.

 

There is an appeal for uniforms for a cub pack that is being started in a poor hispanic area.

 

Does anyone know of any video tapes or cd's on the history of scout emblems?. The concept of why uniforms starting with baden powell.

[FScouter]

Like any other business, profits are used to build and support and perpetuate the business. All the "profits" from BSA operations stay within BSA. There are no cash dividends to the stockholders of this corporation.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Maybe they don't feel compelled to buy the pants because they heard some numbskull say there is no "guideline" to wear the uniform."

 

Are you a native speaker of English? Do you have a high school diploma?

 

I don't think that anyone has said that there is no "guideline" to wear the uniform. We've all stated that there is no requirement to wear a uniform. Big difference.

 

However, leading by example works. The last SM only wore a uniform shirt that was a size too small and was often heard to say that the uniform was silly and would roll his ideas when uniform inspections were mentioned. Only about 50% of the Scouts would show up in uniform for anything, including troop meetings. Green pants were unheard of. We have a new SM who wears the complete uniform from the socks up. Now, I would say that 50% of the Scouts have uniform pants with another 25% wearing green pants from Old Navy or a similar source. It is very rare to see a Scout out of uniform at any event.

 

 

 

 

[eagle54]

Could it be said that the scout uniform represents the ideals of Scouting.

 

I have faith in Scouting but does the price of the uniforms represent a fair price.

 

Scouting for a long as I can remember is trying to reach out to those who in a lot of cases do not have the funds for going camping, summer camp or uniforms.

 

It is like the personal management MB. The scout makes up a budget, then records the actual expenses.

 

We have a program that transforms youth.

The summer camp program that provides a summer camp experience for less that what the Y charges.

 

The adults that are working hard so that a 14 year will not run him into the ground on a Philmont, Double H trek.

 

To me scouting is the opportunity to work with youth. To see them grow up each year, and to participate in the court of honors

and it is amazing some make it to eagle.

 

That they will give up electronic games, soda pop, air conditioning etc. for camping etc.

 

I really look up for those folks that volunteer to take the outreach type of scouts camping, summer camp or even take them on treks to Philmont.

 

 

 

 

[Owl62]

This whole issue is of interest to me.

 

Personally, I think it is not right for us to judge anyone who says that they cannot afford a Scout uniform for themselves or their Scouts. And to me, it should not matter. The program as a whole is what matters.

 

I also think that it is not a good idea to say that for the cost of this or that, a Scout uniform could be had. Scouts and their families should not have to give up anything else of any value to them because others of us think that that is a way to afford a uniform.

 

We must remember that all of us have lives outside of Scouting. At least I do. Scouting is part of my life, not all of it.

 

Several things affect Scout uniforms.

 

Uniforming is a method of Scouting - not a requirement. The important thing is to deliver the program - uniform or not.

 

Boys of Scout age outgrow uniforms. I always suggest buying uniforms a bit large.

 

And my opinion is that most uniform components, especially the official shirt, pants, and shorts are not of the best quality, certainly not worth the amounts charged for them. And many are not even well constructed. I recently had to purchase a new shirt. They had four left in my size, and three of those four had one pocket sewn on the shirt front higher than the other. You would think that for $31.48 cents each, they could at least get the pockets on straight. The clerk at the Scout shop just shrugged. The pants do not wear well and often are ill fitting. I do have to say though that the current uniform is a vast improvement over the all olive green polyester uniform of the early 70s both in quality and fit.

 

My opinion is that something really needs to be done about the cost and quality of BSA uniforms. The BSA catalog lists Scout shirts beginning at $29.15 (Youth) and $34.50 (adults). The pants start at $36.85 (youth) and $45.25 (adults). The shorts start at $31.35 (youth) and $39.45 (adult. The socks are about reasonable I think. Shirts for Venturing are in the same price range. But the grey pants start at $65.65 and the shorts at $47.35! The venturing web belt and buckle are $8.45! The Venturing socks are $13.50 a pair! My opinion is that no way are these uniforms worth the cost we are being charged for them. You can purchase similar clothing of higher quality at discount stores often for much less. I bought two pair of cotton canvas duck shorts very similar to Venturing shorts for $28 at a rather high end clothing store. I can buy at least two pairs of very high quality running socks for the price of one pair of Venturing socks. (That little Venturing logo must be VERY expensive. I think their uniform contract(s) need to be renegotiated.

 

I wish that they would come out with a combination pants and shorts - the kind where you can zip off the pant legs to become shorts. I see no reason why this cannot be done. This way members would have both trouser and short in one article of clothing and nearly everyone I have asked says they would like this and would be willing to pay for them as long as the cost is reasonable. This kind of combination pants and shorts has been discussed elsewhere on the forum.

 

Scout shops are often out of stock on items. "We can special order it for you." Well, so can all of us - we can all order direct from the catalog.

 

As for money to buy Scout uniforms: I am of the belief that the Scouts should earn the money for their uniforms - or at least part of the money. "A Scout pays his way". It is HIS uniform. This may be an old fashioned way of thinking but it is a fact. They have to learn to pay their way.

 

There are lots of ways to do this. Unit fundraisers. The Scout can do little jobs on his own - chores, mowing yards, etc.

 

Also, many people will donate used uniform parts to units. We have at least partially outfitted several new Scouts this way. A wonderful way to keep the uniform parts in service and help other Scouts.

 

And as many have said, lead by example. Adult leaders should strive to support the program and one way to do that is to wear as complete and correct of a uniform as possible. If the registered adults don't wear a uniform, the Scouts are likely not to as well. If the Scouts see the adults in uniform, they will be interested in uniforming as well. The same for Scout leaders.

 

When boys join our unit, we tell them the first thing their Scout needs is a Handbook. Then we discuss the uniform. We tell them where to go to buy it and are honest about the cost. We maintain a small uniform bank and will give out uniform components that we have that will fit or are appropriate. Many of the new Scouts actually like the "experienced uniforms" Our unit has always been good about donating unused uniforms. We ask that the Scouts get at least a uniform shirt. The unit provides most of the insignia. We advise them about the pants, socks, etc. Most over time will get the complete uniform. We recommend that their Scouts participate in all unit fund raising activies and suggest that they earn money on their own doing chores at home or mowing lawns, etc. Most of the Scouts that I know actually want to at least help pay for their uniforms. They know they are expensive and it is their program. Usually by the time our Scouts are 2nd or 1st Class they have both uniform shirt and pants or shorts.

 

This is strange coming from someone who has served in an organization that required strict compliance to uniform regulations. But Scouting is not that organization it is Scouting. We don't get too excited in our unit about a Scout with no uniform or who wears a uniform shirt with jeans. But we do encourge them to wear what uniform parts they have correctly and be neat and clean. Since they get their position and rank insignia given to them, we do encourage them to sew those on and wear them. I do agree that mixing uniform shirts with no uniform pants and shorts is not "uniform" but there is the rest of the program. Strange that I have never read on the forums here of Scouts and Scouters wearing jackets and coats that are not "uniform" or shoes for that matter. My Wood Badge Course was told to not wear "white sneakers" No explanation was given. I guess black or brown or red or pink or purple sneakers were ok? Won't it be interesting if the BSA comes out with official BSA shoes and boots and requires members wear them? I find no reference to shoes or boots (or socks for that matter) in the uniform and insignia guide. Another topic for another day.

 

Personally, I wear as complete and correct of a uniform as I can. Right down to the socks. And neat and clean. I do it because I am proud of the BSA and what it does for the youth of this country and I just generally have some personal pride in my appearance. Several of the adults in our unit do the same. The Scouts see it and it has worked wonders. We have a lot of new Scouts and they WANT to wear a uniform. Most of them have a uniform shirt by the second meeting they attend. They want all the inisignia and such. And for the most part they at least help earn part of the money to purchase one.

 

Have a great day.

 

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"I think it is not right for us to judge anyone who says that they cannot afford a Scout uniform for themselves or their Scouts."

 

Ah, the old "judge not lest ye be judged" bit.

 

As a society and individuals we judge people all the time. His yard's a mess. They have money for beer but not for milk. Look at that, the second new car in two years but the kid's don't have shoes.

 

Actually, the people that I deal with, it isn't a question of whether they can afford the uniform. The cost of buying a uniform is just a disingenuous dodge. When Dad smokes cigars that cost as much as a pair of Scout pants, you know the issue isn't money.

[eagle54]

I am not an expert on clothing and equipment but my perception is that Scouting does not have reputation today that I had for the quality of its uniforms and equipment.

 

I have two handbooks from the 1950's and they had ads from advertisers who made scout equipment.

 

In those days there were offical scout shoes.

 

Scouting is a great program and we need to communicate why the unirorm. The history behind emblems.

 

We need to have more ceremonies for recognition of scouts.

 

Yes it hard to get good stufff in the newspapers, tv stations, etc.

 

We can do car washes etc to pay for uniforms, summer camp etc.

 

 

[keschmahalen]

hello,

 

The last two units I was active with pushed complete uniforming. Eagle 54 and a few others had some good ideas for a uniform bank and or the scouts earning their way. What the units purchased for the scouts was usually covered in the form of a yearly charge at recharter time, and that could be offset by what the scout earned thru our fundraisers.

 

We also had a successful uniform bank. It started small, but grew. Most of the growth came from collecting uniforms donated to the local Goodwill, Salvation Army, DAV, and other such thrift stores. In fact it got so big, that we opened it up to the council, as a fundraiser for the unit. It was very easy to price the uniforms too: "value perceived, based upon abillity to pay". Some units came by on a yearly basis, and the scout shop sent parents to us. The latter often they got a bonus, because they were usually new to scouting. The scout was made to feel how special the uniform was and what he should do to get that first rank. And both he and the parents were sent home knowing a lot more about uniforms and Scouting. Sometimes the uniform had the wrong CSP or a temporary patch, so the scout got a start on his own "patch collection" too.

 

[scouting-nerd]

In scouting, we are an organization with a uniform and as members we should all strive to wear the OFFICIAL uniform, not just other articles of clothing that look similar. If a scout can come up for money for CDs at $15 a poece, then what is to say that he cannot come up with enough money to buy the complete uniform. That would only mean giving up seven CDs, I'm sorry but what difference are sevem Cds going to make. And for those of you who believe that the scout uniform is of poor quality, I would like to see what you are comparing their quality to, these uniforms are made in the USA and are of great quality. If you don't like the uniform you buy read the fine print, your satisfaction is guranteed by the national scout supply division. I care about scouts and scouters being in uniform. Also for those people who are wearing BSa uniforms and are not members of the BSA, I would recomend informing your local proffesional about this, because they can and should get a court order to go into these peopels houses and seize all parts of the BSA uniform that they own, because if you read the Insignia guide it says that all uniforms and insignia are to remain the property of the BSA. If you truly are a good volunteer or scout you should realize you are a part of this organization and you SHOULD wear the FULL and OFFICIAL uniform of this organization.

[Fat Old Guy]

"And for those of you who believe that the scout uniform is of poor quality, I would like to see what you are comparing their quality to, these uniforms are made in the USA and are of great quality. If you don't like the uniform you buy read the fine print, your satisfaction is guranteed by the national scout supply division."

 

However, if we take our pants back because they fit like . . . well, like cheap pants, they can only be replaced by pants that fit the same way.

 

As for what is being compared to BSA uniforms, let's look at simple work pants, how about Navy dungarees and Army BDU's.

 

 

 

 

 

"I would recomend informing your local proffesional about this, because they can and should get a court order to go into these peopels houses and seize all parts of the BSA uniform that they own"

 

That's what I'd call a good public image. Sheriff's deputies raiding homes for Scouting contraband.