Oh the pain!

[hops_scout]

Ever think that her job provided her with that cell phone? Never know

[Fat Old Guy]

"Ever think that her job provided her with that cell phone? Never know"

 

Good try hopper but I do know, they didn't.

 

 

[Hunt]

I'm with Bob58 on this--get the boys into Scouting, and then deliver the program in a manner that makes them want to be properly uniformed. I think there are plenty of people who are turned off by the whole idea of a uniform (my wife is one of them), and if you emphasize it too much when recruiting you may well lose some boys who would get a lot out of the program.

[EagleInKY]

My son made tried out for the track team a few weeks ago. A letter was sent home a few days later, he had made the team! We were told that we owed $55 to pay for uniforms & travelling expenses. (We weren't given any "outs" if we couldn't afford it, were'nt told that we could pay over installements, we were just told we had to pay it).

 

Here's the interesting part. They chose about 80 kids for the team. As far as I know, they all paid the fees. The uniforms were sent home. They were nice, but used. We have to return them at the end of the season. Second, since my son didn't make the travelling squad, he'll only be running in three meets that are held at his school.

 

So, bottom line, I paid $55 for my son to wear a used pair of shorts and a tank top three times, and for him to run at practice a couple of days a week. As for the portion of my fees that went to travelling expenses.... I don't think I got my moneys worth.

 

My point - I agree with FOG. Parents routinely pay much more for sports-related uniforms and equipment. I think we are very fair in scouting. There's no excuse for not being properly uniformed.

[Fat Old Guy]

Heck, for $55 your son should get NEW shorts and singlet AND get to keep them.

 

 

[KoreaScouter]

If it's something you want to do, you'll do whatever you need to do in order to participate, including getting and wearing a uniform. Look around, there are plenty of examples everywhere.

 

We need to quit apologizing for being a uniformed movement. Call it a commitment test if you want, but if you're getting a pushback on a uniform or a handbook, Scouting something they probably aren't serious about anyway.

 

I've done recruiting in a variety of ways, in both Cubs and Boy Scouts. Many come to the roundup, or stop at your table, but all don't take the literature, or come back, or stick with it. That's fine; if this were easy, everyone would do it.

 

I had two Scouts quit a couple months ago, both crossed-over Webelos who should have known better, who left because they didn't realize there was such an outdoor emphasis tied in with the advancement program. Huh? Where were you when your den completed their AOL requirements?

 

Bottom line: I'd rather have 15 Scouts who are "all the way in" than 30 whose commitment is half-hearted at best.

 

KS

[Eamonn]

One really good thing about these forums is that at times the little gray cells get a work out.

It happened the other day in a posting about money being donated for specific groups and it's happening again with the 30 half-hearted Lads and the 15 Lads that are committed to the program.

As a rule I tend to go along with most of the stuff that KS posts in these forums and I have saved a few of his postings because I thought they were outstanding.

While we have never met I feel certain that he sets the example to the Scouts in the Troop that he serves in both commitment and in proper uniforming. I think that I would enjoy meeting with him and discussing the methods of Scouting as there are a few little things that we don't see eye to eye on. Not that either of us are wrong, we just don't, maybe understand exactly where the other is coming from.(In my opinion.)

Needless to say it is far easier and a lot more rewarding to be the Leader of a group of people who have commitment. So I agree with that.

I'm just not sure about what happens to the Lads that as yet are not committed?

Do we just let them go?

We sure as heck are not fulfilling the mission of Scouting if we let them go.

But who wants a troop full of half-hearted Scouts? And if half the troop is made up with half-hearted Scouts will they pull the other Lads down?

Boy there is a lot of unanswered questions.

To add to them:

Is Scouting for every boy? By the number of Lads that don't join it would seem obvious that not every boy is for Scouting.

Do Scoutmasters get the troop they deserve?

Eamonn

[KoreaScouter]

Don't get me wrong, I don't send Scouts home if they aren't wearing official socks. I've had Scouts come up to me before a meeting, apologizing because they changed on the way to the meeting from school, and forgot their belt. I understand, encourage him to remember it next time, and we press on.

 

Are all my Scouts committed, "all the way in"? Heck, no. I've got one who's quit and rejoined at least four times since I've been here. Others who don't want leadership positions, and some who do but don't put the effort in. Some take sports seasons off, and some who show consistently for meetings, but not for outings, and vice versa. I'll re-register all those critters until they're 18, as long as they tell me they still want to belong. This is a marathon, not a sprint, after all.

 

Some of those will eventually quit "dipping their toe in the water" and jump in with a cannonball. On the other hand, some will quit, and some will stay but not advance, develop fully as leaders, or get everything they can out of the program. Ultimately, that's their choice, not mine.

 

I don't know if it's a matter of "letting them go" -- that term implies we have a choice in the matter. I don't force anyone out, but I can't force them in or force them to stay, either. I lay out the buffet, it's up to them to grab a plate and dig in.

 

I don't know to what extent an uncommitted or partially committed Scout can pull others down. The lads are surrounded by that at school, sports, and elsewhere, and amid apathy in all those settings, motivated boys still excel. We're no different in my opinion. And, the great thing about Scouting is that you're only competing with yourself.

 

Do Scoutmasters get the Troops they deserve? I'd say yes, if we pulled all the strings, made all the decisions, and controlled all the variables. Alas, we don't. I have to bite my tongue at the chaos and inefficiencies that are inherent in adolescent boys learning to lead and make decisions, planning and running their own program, with all the hiccups and bumps that come with being an adolescent boy. It may be like making sausage -- you don't want to watch it being made, but the end product's not bad.

 

At any rate, how do you assess a Troop? Is it based on how many ribbons they win at a camporee? How many Eagles they produce? How much popcorn they sell? How many UC wooden nickels get handed out at uniform inspections? Or, is it based on an intangible we can't really determine unless/until we can look in on each lad when he's 25, and measure how his Scouting experience shaped him as a man?

 

Thanks Eammon. That smell is my brain cells cooking...

 

KS

[Angadir]

As a former Scout Master, I made the decision not to require the full scout uniform for participation. When a Shirt is costing $30+ dollars, and pants about the same, I opted to let the Scouts keep the extra money. Not all our parents have the spare cash to throw around and when you have to buy the kids new pants every couple of months because of the growth spurts it just isnt worth it.

We do require our Eagle Candidates to have complete uniforms, if they have come that far, then they should be responsible enough to have the complete uniform. We also try to encourage the younger scouts to check garage sale for uniforms etc..., we have had quite a bit of luck finding uniforms in smaller sizes that are perfectly serviceable at garage sales, thrift stores etc...

 

One of the decisions on the scout pants was the shorts were too short (by todays standard) and although the pants were fine for meetings, they were useless when camping. Why did they do away with cargo pockets?

We have found solid green military style cargo pants at our local surplus store that are almost the exact color as the BSA pants, but have usable cargo pockets and they cost about half of what the BSA pants do. I have encouraged the scouts to get these if possible, We do Not allow Camoflaged pants or shirts on scouting trips. However since most of my kids are military dependants, we do allow the camo ponchoes and rain gear that they inherit.

 

As for Patches etc... we do try to have the troop up to speed and neat for inspections and intertroop activities.

[Eamonn]

Over the weekend I ran into an old friend of mine. We got to talking about what our sons were up to. This friend said that his son wanted him to put a pool table in the family room. He said that he took his son down to the basement and they stopped in front of several boxes. He said that the first box contained his sons' old Nintendo and games. The Nintendo cost about $60.00 and the tapes cost about $20.00 each. He said in the box there was about forty tapes. He Went to say that he explained to his son that the next box contained the Nintendo 64. Which at the time his son couldn't live without. The machine cost about $100.00 and the tapes cost about $30.00 each. There was about thirty games. The last box had the Play Station which cost cost $200.00 and had been replaced by the Play Station 2.This was now in his son's bedroom but wasn't getting much use. My friend was using this to explain the reason why he wasn't going to buy a pool table.

In my case I have a son who has feet that grow at a great rate of knots. He plays soccer and is on the track team. When he first stated playing soccer we could get away with going to Pay Less and his soccer boots cost under $20.00. Now the price tag is over $100.00. We didn't get into the video games, instead I bought him his own lap top computer and we have a wireless network at home. The soccer boots last about a season if we are lucky. There are other add ons that he "Has to have" Shin guards, bags, balls, the list goes on.

My feeling is that I don't tell anyone how to spend their money and I don't need anyone to tell me how to spend mine.

He is a Boy Scout. Uniform is part of being a Boy Scout.

The Uniform is the Uniform and I don't have the right to start making changes to it!! I do agree that some of the prices seem a little steep. But then again the soccer boots aren't cheap. I don't know how much money we spend a year on Scouting. I do happen to think that when I look at the amount of time my son spends Scouting and all the good stuff that he is getting out of the program. It is the best value in town.

Please don't try and change the rules, cheapening the program doesn't make it any better.I know that in our District we will find the cash to help anyone that needs a helping hand. However units that even try to play by the rules only hurt the entire program.

Eamonn

 

[FScouter]

We have some Scoutmasters in our district that have met and overcome the challenge of the uniform "problem". Their boys own and wear all the parts. Some other Scoutmasters aren't up to the task. Their boys wear various uniform parts as the mood strikes. Some of those Scoutmasters have created uniform "rules" such that their boys are easily in "compliance".

[EagleInKY]

Well said, Eamonn.

 

We expect our guys to wear the uniform, simple as that. Now, if a lad is coming straight from soccer practice, and he has a choice of being 5 minutes late in his soccer uniform or a 1/2 hour late in his Scout uniform, then I'd rather see him on time. But I leave it up to them to make that judgement call.

 

We ask new boys to have uniform pants within a month after they join. If they join in the spring, we ask them to get shorts, and delay purchasing the pants until the fall.

 

We don't ask them to buy new items. Just that they are in decent shape. There are plenty of sources for "gently used" uniforms.

[dsteele]

I want to know how Eamonn's son plays soccer in boots!

 

Hee hee!

 

Unc.

[baschram645]

I have heard of troops that have a uniform locker of sorts. Scout uniforms that are out grown are saved and passed on. As far as "My Mom hasn't had time to sew it on" doesn't work here , this SM learned to sew sewing on a Tenderfoot patch at the age of 11.

[Angadir]

Dont get me wrong , we weren't telling the kids not to get a uniform, but when I took over the troop, I did it because the former leader had taken a job offer out of the area and the assistant got sent overseas again. There were 5 scouts including my son who had just earned his Arrow of Light, I didnt have a lot of spare money, two of my scouts had single parent homes and money was tight for the rest. I made the decision that they had to have the Scout Shirt, and to wear presentable pants, close toed shoes or boots and look sharp. Since that time, three of the original 5 have made Eagle, my son is on his way and one dropped out. Our ranks have grown to around 30 registered and 20 average participation. We have the first meeting of the month in our full uniform (Field Uniform?) for inspection and awards, and the rest of the month is in out class b or activities uniform. We have t-shirts made up with the troop logo and everyone has one. We base the uniform requirements on the activities scheduled for the evening.