The switch from green to kahkai

[VentureScoutNY]

I put this in a post from another thread, and wanted to follow up on it.

 

For those of you who were scouts during the Uniform change, from green to kahaki... Did you all buy new Uniforms, or trade in uniforms, or insignia?

 

How long after the Uniform change did it take for the Kahkai to be in regualr Circulation?

 

[shemgren]

I got my Eagle when the uniform was changed (1980). I bought my new style uniform in 1981. There was no exchange, and the badges slowly changed to the new uniform style. In my area, the new uniforms took 6 to 8 months to showup. Back then, my council only had a small trading post and didn't get new stuff very fast.

 

YIS

Scott

[KA6BSA]

The current field uniform shirt is not kahkai... the color is officially TAN.

[mikeb]

Yea, whatever on the tan/khaki comment. I also received my Eagle in '80, and was in what was a pretty big council (old Theodore Roosevelt) at the time. As I recall us boys bought new uniforms as they were outgrown or could be afforded. The adults fell into groups. There were those who ran out and bought the new threads right away, some later on, then there were those like my old scoutmaster who never did buy a new style uniform. As a side note I think it's about time national restyled the "gay '80's" uniform. I personally would like to see something a little less flamboyant and a little more military field style.

[Bob White]

The previous uniform was not green it was called khaki.

 

It took days for some, and years for others, to make the transition. It really was a non-issue as I remember it. When you needed new threads, or wanted to make the change, you did it.

 

 

[Proud Eagle]

There is a large group of Scouts/Scouters (an entire troop I think) that still wears the old uniform around here. They search long and hard to find replacement parts and patches, but they somehow manage to do it.

 

So some people still haven't made the switch. I never have really figured out what that is all about. I guess they must not like the current uniform very much.

[Fat Old Guy]

"The previous uniform was not green it was called khaki."

 

It was called khaki but it was green.

[VentureScoutNY]

Hmmm, the old uniform was green but called kahkai, the current uniform is kahaki but is called tan. Got It. Anyway...

 

That is interesting Proud Eagle that an entire Troop wears the old style Uniform. That must be quit a site to see. I always thought it was cool, to this day, seeing some of the older scouters wearing their original uniforms. Gives for nice stories to the younger scouts.

[willysjeep]

It's my impression that as long as it is complete and matching you can still wear the older uniforms all you want.

 

As for the colors originally the 1910 military copy was "khaki tan" and the later 20's and later uniforms were "khaki green" and now we have tan and olive. I'm still wondering where the heck they got the idea of epulates and shoulder loops from.

 

I'm beginning to see myself collecting some of those old uniforms. Mabey If I get them in my size I can show them off while on summer camp staff.

[Fat Old Guy]

"I'm still wondering where the heck they got the idea of epulates and shoulder loops from."

 

Epaulets are a classic military uniform feature. They are handy for holding gloves, caps and gas mask bag straps. I think that the loops were borrowed from the Army which uses (Or used) green loop to designate combat leaders.

 

 

 

[acco40]

Our OA lodge youth revel in the green (khaki green?) uniforms. A few of the older boys wear them and the younger ones emulate them. Anything to be different!

 

My soon to be 14 year old son has a green one that he always wears to OA and usually to the troop meetings. I have asked that he wear the tan shirt for COH and other "formal" occasions when he should actually try to look uniform in his uniform.

[VentureScoutNY]

 

I'm sure Military Epaulets are better use for gloves, hats etc... I have seen a few scouts put their berets in them. I have put my overseas hat in mine, but it didn't look quite right. I usually put my overseas hat in my belt. I believe the Epaulets are mostly for look and style on todays BSA uniform, besides the fact that they represnt what program you are associated with.

[John-in-KC]

My Suspicion:

 

If you don't know, there are provisions in Title 10 US Code which allow BSA a distinctive uniform AND proscribe ANY Armed Forces uniform from being used by BSA.

 

The US Army went away from the Army Tan summer uniform uniform beginning in the 50s to 70s. First went the woolen Tropical Worsted Class B uniform (shirt/pants/tie). Then went the Tropical worsted Class A uniform (business suit: trousers, shirt and blouse (aka coat). Finally, in the early 80s, the Army Tan summer uniform (cotton khakis and poly/cotton permanent press short sleeve shirt and trousers) went away.

 

IN FACT, Mother Army went to light green shirt with dark green trousers for our Class A and B uniforms.

 

Going from olive/olive to olive/tan makes sense in the context of having a BSA uniform that is different from the Armed Forces uniforms.

 

This is only a suspicion. Only someone who has access to the historical secret documents in Irving will be able to substantiate this as fact

 

[Proud Eagle]

Actually John, I think your reading is a bit off. I don't claim to be an expert but if you look at Sec 771 it says that no one can wear a military uniform unless otherwise provided for in law. Sec 772 then provides for the BSA to wear whatever uniform it chooses. So if the BSA decides to adopt the current uniform of the US Army, they are free to do so. They would, by my understanding, need to swap out all military insignia (including buttons on dress uniforms) for BSA insignia, but other than that the uniforms could be identical. In fact, in the early years, the uniforms were indistinguishable. During the First World War the BSA started wearing a distinctive hat emblem to make it clear to the public its members were not in fact soldiers.

 

United States Code

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 45 > Sec. 771.

Sec. 771. - Unauthorized wearing prohibited

 

 

 

Except as otherwise provided by law, no person except a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, as the case may be, may wear -

 

(1)

 

the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps; or

 

(2)

 

a uniform any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps

 

 

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 45 > Sec. 772.

Sec. 772. - When wearing by persons not on active duty authorized

 

(j)

 

A person in any of the following categories may wear the uniform prescribed for that category:

 

(1) Members of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"Going from olive/olive to olive/tan makes sense in the context of having a BSA uniform that is different from the Armed Forces uniforms."

 

Tan shirt, green pants. Have you seen a Marine recently?