Neckerchiefs

[Proud Eagle]

My troop uses the official dark green neckerchief with embroidered logo and edges in red. To my knowledge every troop in my home town uses that same neckerchief. I don't really know why that developed that way, but it did.

 

New Scouts are usually presented a neckerchief during the bridge crossing ceremony, or their first troop meeting.

 

At one time every youth and adult was expected to wear the neckerchief at every meeting. Now it is only loosely encouraged.

 

Also, it is common to see other neck wear in use. This is especially true of the adult leaders. Many choose to wear bolo ties, or special neckerchiefs. Occasionally a youth member will also wear a bolo or other neckerchief.

 

Most people wear the neckerchief under the collar. I personally despise that method of wear and instead turn the collar under and wear the neckerchief over it. The troop has never really set a policy on this matter, to my knowledge.

[Bob White]

from the same post

"Uniformity when wearing the Neckerchief is important. Everyone in the Troop should wear them the same way."

 

AND

 

"We wear it under the shirt Collar, a few of the old rocking chair patrol (adults) wear them over their collar."

 

It just sorta caught my eye.

If uniformity is so important, why do some adult leaders in the troop not follow the rule and help support the decision. And, if they can be different are the scouts allowed to ignore things and be given a pass as well?

 

Just curious.

BW

[Eamonn]

The Scout Group in which I was a Scout and Venture Scout back in England had a really nice necker. No one seems to know how it came about, as we were one of the early Troops. The 17th Fulham (Pioneers) Neckerchief was black with a quarter inch white border and a patch which was black with a white rope border meeting in a reef knot inside the rope were two crossed axes.

The neckerchief was part of the offical Scout uniform so it was worn with the uniform. At the time the Scout shirt was a dark green.

I don't wear a necker very often but seem to have a lot. In fact I seen one from the 75 Jamboree selling for over $200.00 on e-bay. I have the full set from all the sub-camps.

The Lad who attended the last word jamboree gave me the necker from the English contingent. I have never counted how many. Some years back I got them out and OJ seen them, he was only a little fellow but he looked at me and said "Daddy when you die can I have all of them"

At least they will find a good home.

I'm not sure where I will be!!

Eamonn

[VentureScoutNY]

Bob:

 

"If uniformity is so important, why do some adult leaders in the troop not follow the rule and help support the decision. And, if they can be different are the scouts allowed to ignore things and be given a pass as well? "

 

 

Yes they should also follow that rule. But they are the leaders and some of them, being war veterans, or retired police officers, have earned the right to wear the neckerchief any way they want. We set these rules down for scouts and scouters as guidlelines to wear the uniform correctly. Just because a leader wears his neckerchief the way he did when he was a youth, does not mean he is not setting a good example. He's not wearing ripped jeans and a shirt thats not tucked in.

 

When it coems to the scouts, they wear them under the collar not only because it is the rule, but because all of them are doing it. Over the collar may seem uncool to them since just the leaders wera it that way.

 

Whatever floats your boat as long as you are not straying too far from what is expected...A scout in a red jacket with patches all over it although may be not legal according to the proper wear of the red jacket still look better than the scouts that wear jean jackets.

 

 

[Bob White]

My question wasn't about untucked shirts, jeans, or jackets covered with patches. I simply saw two very conflicting comments in one post. Now that you have explained it brings up two other questions.

 

Do you think it can be confusing to tell scouts they can't break rules but some adults can "earn" the right to do so?

 

Do you think that the veterans, and the retired police officers, would follow the rules if someone explained that to let them ignore the rules sets the wrong example for the scouts?

 

Is it that big a deal? I don't know. You said "Uniformity when wearing the Neckerchief is important" so you decide.

[VentureScoutNY]

"Do you think it can be confusing to tell scouts they can't break rules but some adults can "earn" the right to do so?"

 

Yes it can be confusing, but if you explain to them that the old guys do what they do because thats just the way it is, they will understand. I am not in any position to tell someone older, wiser, more experience than me that he is doing something wrong. He has Earned the right to wear it the way he wants whethere or not it is common among the rest of the scouts. Again, he is not doing anything radical here..its just above the collar, no bombs being thrown.

 

If setting the wrong example is wearing the neckerchief above the collar, and it was explained to them I'm sure they would change their minds and wear them the way everyone else is.

 

It's not really a big deal to me. When I said uniformity is important i meant it loosley. We arent nazi youth or anything, a pocket unbuttoned will not get you shot. I was more saying that we should strive to have uniformity. When it comes to wearing the neckerchief, if the leaders wear them all above the collar, they should ALL do it. Similarly the scouts should do what they decide.

 

I hope that clears it up.

 

 

[Bob White]

VentureScoutNY

Do you understand that I'm not talking about uniforming at all? I wanted to make sure you saw that you were saying 'this rule is important, and the scouts need to follow it because its important...but the adults don't have to."

 

And as you have said and I agree...Yes they should also follow that rule.

 

Where we disagree is that you think it can be justified to the scouts. My point is that not only can't it be, but it shouln't be. A rule is a rule and it either stands for everyone or or it doesn't. I have no concerns about what you teach the scouts about uniforming, but what are they learning about their responsibilities as adults? Food for thought, I hope.

[VentureScoutNY]

Well , Bob, maybe you have me there. I do agree with you. But in some cases thats not the way it is, unfortunatly. I do not think scouts go that deep into thinking about the issue, but maybe they do, I don't know. Rules are rules though and do see the reasoning in everyine following them whatever age, to set the right example for everyone.

[kdmill_1]

Our troop isn't currntly wearing one, but I'm trying to convince them to. We've been toying with the idea of the original neckerchief as a useful tool, a large square or triangular piece of cloth that can be used for multiple purposes, not just a colorful necktie. I envision a solid color cloth, larger than what's offered in the catalog so as to be useful in the field. Does anyone do this or have you seen other troops doing it this way?

[Fat Old Guy]

Being a card carrying member of the Uniform Police, I am required to point out that making a neckerchief other than the official size is a big no-no. That said, I am a scofflaw and wear one that is huge.

[kdmill_1]

But does the Uniform and Insignia Guide state a "required" size, or does it simply indicate how to wear one?

[Fat Old Guy]

I don't have my Insignia Guide handy but it says that alternative neckerchiefs must be the same size and shape as the official neckerchiefs.

[kdmill_1]

You're right. I looked it up. It says that a council may dictate a neckerchief or allow troops to decide their own. If troops decide on a custom design it must be the same size as "official" neckerchiefs. I may to go "rogue" on this one. Bad me! Bad me! : )

[EagleInKY]

I do think adults or thick-necked boys should be able to wear a slightly bigger one. Before I lost weight last year, I felt like mine looked more like a bow-tie than a neckerchief. ;-)

[NJCubScouter]

My son's troop uses the stock red-and-black BSA neckerchief. It is presented at the crossover ceremony and put on the boy by one of the Scouts who is assisting the SM at the ceremony. (For boys who come into the troop other than from a Webelos den, or who missed their crossover for whatever reason, the practice seems to be inconsistent. Sometimes they are presented with the neckerchief at the closing ceremony of their first meeting, and sometimes it is just handed to them during their first meeting with no fanfare at all. I haven't quite figured that one out yet.)

 

I am somewhat curious about the troops who present a neckerchief to the Scout upon achieving First Class or some other milestone such as an overnighter. Is there any particular reason for this? I am not suggesting there's anything wrong with it, only that the practice of my son's troop (as well as both troops of which I was a youth member) is/was that every Scout wears the neckerchief from Day One in the troop, and I've never heard of a different custom until now.

 

Some of the adults wear the neckerchief, others wear bolo ties. The one Scout I have seen wearing a bolo tie is the current JASM. As for how it is to be worn, there does not appear to be any particular rule. The neckerchief is worn at all times when the uniform is worn, in other words, at all times except for camping trips where the troop is camping alone.

 

The vast majority of the boys wear the standard neckerchief slide, but this does not appear to be a rule. Actually the way I know it isn't a rule is that my son usually wears a wooden "Scout sign" slide that my father carved for him, signed and dated on the back and "presented" when my son attended summer camp for the first time. (I also have one, carved by my father from an earlier version of the same kit, dated about 25 years earlier, I think I got it at my last summer camp rather than my first.) Anyway, the SM complimented my son on the slide, so obviously there was no objection to the non-standard slide.