Arrow points on the Webelos Tan Shirt

[msnowman]

This has been a great debate in our Pack and I'm looking for a definitive answer on it. When the previous badges of rank are worn in the diamond, on the tan shirt, are the arrow points earned as a Wolf and a Bear also worn? I do understand that if the Webelos badge worn is the Oval, the other badges of rank are not worn. Or perhaps I'm wrong about that as well (wouldn't be the first time, nor, I suspect, the last). The Uniform inspection sheets are (for me anyway) vague, saying that for the tan, its the same as for the blue. So, Uniform Police, please hear my plea and answer this nagging question that has been weighing heavy on me.

 

Michelle - (still learning) CM, Pack 102, Orland, ME

[EagleInKY]

We encourage our Webelos parents to get the tan shirt coinciding with the earning of the Webelos badge. This means they go through the first 6 months of Webelos with the blue shirts, and thus, the old ranks. When they get the Webelos badge, we give them the oval rank, they sew it on the tan shirt, and voila, you have no issue.

[Bob White]

You are right on the mark here msnowman.

The cub ranks and arrow points can be transfered to the tan shirt and stay until the webelos badge is earned. Then the othe cub ranks and points come off.

 

As far as when to go to the tan shirt, I recommend to the parents to switch once the scout has both reached Webelos, and out grows his cub shirt. This growth spurt almost always happens during his 18-month to two-year stay in Webelos.

 

 

[NWScouter]

Here is an interesting thought. It is my understanding that the oval Webolos badge is replacing the diamond one and the old one will be no longer available. Since the individual Webelos has the option of wearing either the blue or tan shirt, what happens when he earns the Webelos badge, when he opts to wear the blue shirt. Does he remove all the patches on the left pocket or is the oval badge even worn on the blue shirt? The tan background of the patch would look out of place.

[ScoutNut]

Yes, if the scout & his family wish (their choice, not the Pack's), and the boy has not earned his Tiger rank, they can transfer all of their scouts ranks, arrowpoints, and whatever else to the tan shirt for Webelos. Once he crosses to a Boy Scout Troop he would be required to take off everything except those badges which can be transfered to the Boy Scout uniform.

According to the Uniform Inspection Sheet, the option of wearing the ranks diamond w/ arrowpoints is open only to those Webelos who have not earned Tiger rank no matter which color uniform they choose (badge placement is the same for tan or blue Webelos shirt). All other Webelos should be wearing only their most current badge of rank (Tiger, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Webelos) on their left pocket.

My question is who in their right mind would even consider transfering all of those pain in the finger arrowpoints?? Not me, that's for sure! They were hard enough to get on looking halfway decent the first time!

 Nut

[Fat Old Guy]

"All other Webelos should be wearing only their most current badge of rank (Tiger, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Webelos) on their left pocket."

 

Now that's insane. If your son has rank badges and arrow points on his shirt, you're supposed to remove them all except the latest? Sounds like more work than it's worth.

 

I don't like he oval Webelos patch anyway. If they wanted to stick Tiger into the diamond, they could have replaced Bobcat with the circular pin from the old days.

 

As for sewing the arrow points, I did it twice on my son's shirts. It isn't that hard.

 

 

[molscouter]

I have to agree with FOG on this one. The arrow points are easy to sew on, there's only the shirt proper to deal with. The toughest is locating that Tiger badge in the correct place on the pocket (six o'clock and remember, they may not have the Bobcat badge yet, my younger son didn't) then having to try to sew it on that tiny pocket with my fat, short fingers. Luckily the Tiger badge is sticky on the back, that helped some.

 

The time has come for definitive guidance on this, though. This year's Bears were the first to earn the Tiger badge, so as Webelos next year, they need to know. The uniform inspection sheet (at least the one I've seen) contradicts itself. The words say only the current rank (Bobcat, etc) is worn and as an option, the diamond Webelos badge if the Tiger badge was not earned. The diagram clearly shows a Tiger Badge in the six o'clock position as an option, and arrow points are there. So which is it?

(This message has been edited by molscouter)

[msnowman]

Thanks everybody for the replies. Last year for Cub Camp I had stitched all of the arrow points on my Web I's tan shirt (badges of rank were already in place, thanks Ebay). Our packs former CM said they didn't go on the tan shirt, so I looked it up. Since I wasn't able to find anything to the contrary, I left them in place until this month when he moved to a new shirt and Webelos badge. As a pack we let the parents choose when to put their son in a tan shirt, most seem to do it as the need for a new shirt arises. We also keep a stock of used shirts, to help reduce the cost issue for parents who's son wants to make the change sooner than the parent can afford (lots of the boys want to go tan as soon as they can, in order to look like "THE BIG BOYS"). We only have one current Bear who was also a Tiger, so the blue shirt will still have a place for their diamond shape badges if that is the family choice. Unless National changes uniforming standards for Webelos Scouts.

[fotoscout]

Bob did you mean to say "either" earned the Webelos badge or outgrown the blue shirt? I don't think that I would suggest to a parent that they buy a new blue shirt for only six months, until the boy earned his Webelos badge.

 

Of course the boys would have to be in the Webelos program.

[acco40]

Arrowpoints may be worn (blue or tan shirt) if the Webelos diamond rank badge is worn. They may not be worn with the oval Webelos rank badge.

 

Let's look at the issue from a practicality standpoint. The "diamond" can accomodate four badges or less. The issuing of a diamond rank badge is a recent development. In the recent past "tiger strips" were awarded, not a diamond shaped rank badge. Therefore, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear & Webelos made up the diamond quartet of badges. When the Tiger diamond badge first became available (and the Tigers were more main streamed into the Pack) there then no room for Tiger, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear and Webelos badges (diamond limited to four). So, for a while, Webelos, who earned the Tiger strip as a Tiger but still in Cub Scouts as Wolf, Bear or Webelos when the Tiger diamond badge was offered had the option of going with the Webelos Oval or Webelos diamond badge. Not sure of exact dates but when the first class of Tigers who earned the Tiger diamond badge come (came?) around to the Webelos rank the option of Oval or Diamond for Webelos went away. The Oval was required and for the tan shirt.

 

Now for opinion. The BSA loses many youth in the transition from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts. In 1982 Tiger Cubs started as a 7 year-old or second grade program. Wolf was the 8 year-old or third grade program, Bear was the 9 year-old or fourth grade program, and Webelos was the 10 year-old or fifth grade program. Starting in 1986 ages for the various programs were lowered and the two year Webelos program was introduced. The Tiger Cub program started for first-grade boys, Wolf was a second-grade and third-grade program. In 1987 Bear was a third grade and fourth grade program. Wolf became a second grade only program. In 1988 the new fourth grade Webelos program started and the old Webelos program was used for fifth graders. In 1989 the first second-year Webelos dens were formed and were for fifth graders. With the required tan shirts and Oval rank badge, Webelos is slipping into "Junior Boy Scouts." I think it is a mistake but an attempt by the BSA to keep membership.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[msnowman]

acco said "... Not sure of exact dates but when the first class of Tigers who earned the Tiger diamond badge come (came?) around to the Webelos rank the option of Oval or Diamond for Webelos went away. The Oval was required and for the tan shirt."

 

Unless it is different in other Councils, our current Bears will be the first group to have potentially earned the Tiger Diamond. I have seen nothing to say the Oval and Tan shirt were required. Do you have a link Acco? I'd like to be able to pass that on to the rest of the Pack if it has been decreed as official. Perhaps it is part of a new uniforming code for Webelos effective with the next class? Not all boys join Cubs as Tigers, so many would still have room for a diamond badge.

 

 

[fgoodwin]

NWScouter wrote:

 

It is my understanding that the oval Webolos badge is replacing the diamond one and the old one will be no longer available.

 

 

I don't believe that is correct. LDS does not use the Tiger program, so LDS boys (who make up a significant percentage of Cub Scouts) will have room for the Webelos diamond patch, meaning that patch should be around a long time.

 

[NWScouter]

I believe that in the near future the BSA will stop producing the diamond shaped Webelos badge and only the oval will be available. It matters not whether or not the boy has or has not been a Tiger.