Uniform Police

[Bob White]

For fairness sake, I went back and reread the original post. I walk away unchanged. As a silly story (it structurally isn't a joke), it's fine up until the last two paragraphs. The writers point is to exagerate the humor in order to emphasize his point of the last two paragraphs.

 

The problem is that his summary of the purpose of the uniform is greatly lacking. The sense of belonging that he points to as the only pupose of the uniform, at least the only one he offers, is but a sliver of the pupose of the uniform as a method in scouting.

 

There lies my problem. He brushes off the uniform method as an unimportant factor in achieving the aims, and it is not. He fails to mention any of the other reasons for the uniform, either by choice or lack of knowledge. It leaves a very mistaken immpression on the purpose and use of the uniform method. So no matter how funny the intro may be it leads to a false summary, and so I find little value in the humor.

 

 

[andrewcanoe]

The point of the story to me seems to be don't sweat the small stuff and just focus on presenting a well rounded program and don't get hung up on only one particular method, whether it be uniform or advancement or any of other methods.

 

That being said there is few better feelings than the one a leader get when a scout come up to them in order to show off his new uniform with all the patches in the right spot because he showed Mom the handbook and made sure everything was perfect.

[Adrianvs]

Hypothetical: If the BSA were to blindside us all and completely revoke the uniform as a method of scouting and relegate all current items as historical souvenirs (stranger things have happened in history), would the importance (or necessarity) of uniform for achieving the methods be changed?

 

-There is one argument regarding the integrity of following the program of the organization that you belong to.

 

-There is the second argument regarding the practical value of any particular decision, program, method, (or whatever noun you wish to use) that the BSA makes.

 

Keep both of those in perspective and realize the distinction between them (as well as relation) as you answer. Would the potential value of using uniform have changed pending the voting or dissemination of the policy? Would you describe the decision as "wrong" even if you followed it? Don't answer from the "the BSA ALWAYS makes the correct decision" perspective or the "the BSA is COMPLETELY out of touch with Scouting" perspective unless they are truly your beliefs. Look at the specifics. Would you encourage following the new program? If so, would you still criticize it? These are all thoughts...(This message has been edited by Adrianvs)

[evmori]

Structurally isn't a joke? So what? Most have missed the point & those who missed the point probably sweat the small stuff!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[JimmyD]

BW out of curiosity i was wondering how your thinknig was? (conservative,reactionary,liberal,radical, moderate)

[Fat Old Guy]

"Hypothetical: If the BSA were to blindside us all . . ."

 

Sorry, Bob White has declared all discussion of hypothetical BSA futures to be null and void.

 

 

[Eamonn]

I once again am a little lost. As to where this is going. I am all for the methods of Scouting. I do tend to agree with Bob White that the final two pionts are a little much. As to the humor? I did smile. I happen to think that even the idea that there is a Uniform Police is so absurd that the only thing you can do is smile.

Still at the end of the day Uniform is a method of Scouting. At times OJ my son is not that keen on wearing the full uniform. (Yes he has a few entire uniforms.) I explain to him that when he says the Scout Oath he is making a pledge to the ideals of Scouting. Some of which will come easy and some will not be so easy. He may not like that he has to help other people at all times but he has to give it his best shot. The Uniform is the outward sign of his commitment to the program and he should do his best to wear it.

When we adults ignore the uniform method what message are we sending to our Scouts? I think that the message is that it is ok to pick and chose what their commitment is." Ok so I won't wear the pants - They aren't cool". "Ok I don't want to help people at all times I think that I will only help them two days a week."

Please note that I have said that a Scout will do his best to wear the uniform. If he can't afford it or there are real reasons for not wearing it that is a different kettle of fish.As I visit the troops in our District I see more jeans then Scout Pants, even on Lads who I know own them. Sad thing is that many of the Scoutmasters seem scared to say too much about this. Maybe they just need to give it a little more thought.

Eamonn

[AnneinMpls]

This post made me smile, mainly at the memory of a gentleman scouter. At a brief training session on the uniform method, this older scouter was describing the importance of wearing the uniform correctly as scouters because we serve as the role models. He himself was very sharply turned out in full uniform except for those funny beads he was wearing - I was way too green at the time to know they were legitimately part of the uniform But what stuck with me was what he ended with: What do we say to one who is wearing the uniform improperly? and he demonstrated shaking their hand respectfully without drawing attention to the uniforming mistakes. His entire demeanor communicated kindness and respect - those qualities were as much a part of the uniform he wore.

I think, and perhaps I am reading more into the lil story than is truly there, the point may be that uniforming is one of the 8 methods - humiliation for improper uniforming is not! Others here may not have witnessed "uniform policing" at its most heavy-handed and may find it hard to imagine that such unscoutlike behavior could occur around a good and proper scouting method. If a story like this one can gently chide someone who's gone this path - if they can see themselves in it because the humor allows the message to get through - then such a story may have some usefulness. (It could use a rewrite here and there to polish it up and increase its usefulness.)

Thank you for the opportunity to remember a good scouter,

Peace,

Anne in Mpls

[cliffgolden]

Hello to all,

 

Forgive my late entry into this discussion, but I just now happened across this group on Scouter.com, so I thought I would join in.

 

As the author of the original uniform police story which was posted on Scouts-L on January 16, I thought I could respond to some peoples comments or concerns, if there are any.

 

The context of a discussion on Scouts-L prior to my post dealt with a Scout that was being denied a BOR for Life rank because he didn't own Scout pants. They wouldn't schedule his Life BOR unless he was in full uniform, in effect adding a requirement to attaining the Life rank.

 

That is the mentality I was responding to in my post. I attempted to use humor and have some fun.

 

The final points of my post were meant to deal with the implementation of Scouting's methods. The BSA does not mandate specifically how those 8 methods will be handled by any individual troop. That is left up to the troop itself. Each troop has it's own traditions in implementing the methods of Scouting within the BSA's official policies and guidelines.

 

For example, in some troops outdoor method might include high adventure, or not. Others might do 2-4 trips each month, some troops might not attend summer camp, or do their own long term program. Quality Unit status only requires 6 highlight outdoor events (which is pretty minimal). Troops provide a variety of programs while implementing the outdoor method.

 

Regarding the implementation of the uniform method, some troops only require a shirt, others shirt and pants, some add the belt, some might require Scout socks. Neckerchiefs are required by some and not others, in various colors and styles. Some require a Scout hat, others do not. Those that require a hat, have several options to choose from.

 

When do you wear the uniform? Some troops only require it at Courts of Honor and formal events, others at all troop meetings. Some wear troop t-shirts during summer meetings. Some wear the uniform while traveling, others wear it at all times during all activities, while some others don't wear it when camping. Some still grieve the loss of the official "Buster Brown Scout shoes".

 

The point is each troop does what works best for them following their own traditions. The national council does not dictate each unit's program.

 

As a result, the Uniform Method is not implemented very uniformly.

 

No where in my post do I propose we do away with the Uniform Method. (Though I would point out to some that the Uniform Method was added in 1967, prior to that we had only 7 Methods in Scouting.)

 

My point is that the purpose of the Uniform Method isn't about dressing up boys in matching outfits, with perfectly placed insignia. There's more to it than that.

 

I'll leave it there for now.

 

I don't have a lot of time for Scouts-L, let alone another forum, so I don't know how much posting I'll be doing here.

 

I just thought it would be interesting to interact with some of you after reading your postings.

 

BTW, I apologize for the length of this.

 

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

[Fat Old Guy]

Cliff, Cliff, Cliff, you need to do some better research. My 1962 Scoutmaster handbook lists "Uniform" as #8 of the TEN methods of Scouting. Uniform was removed in the 70's and returned in the 80s.

 

Let's look at sports, one of my favorite analogies since Scouting is a game. If your son plays baseball in a county recreation league, the uniform is pretty relaxed. Usually, rec leagues give out a colored t-shirt and the pants can be jeans or baseball pants of any color and the cap is usually the cheapest cap that can be found. If he forgets his uniform, he can still play in that game. After all, they are there to play baseball and the uniform doesn't have anything to do with the game. If you son moves up to a travel team, you'll find that the uniform is much nicer with a nice shirt and that baseball pants of a specific color are required as are team socks. If you forget your uniform for a game, you get to ride the pine pony for six innings. Why? After all, they are there to play baseball and not make a fashion statement?

 

Wearing a uniform properly shows a commitment to the program and its goals and objectives. Forgetting your uniform or not wanting to wear it properly says that you aren't taking membership in the team seriously and that the game and the team are not important.

 

It is very strange that we accept this in the sports world but not in Scouting. I know parents who brag about the uniform standards of sports teams ("We have to buy matching warm up jackets and the team requires everyone to buy a team duffle" but find the suggestion that their son wear a full Scout uniform to be bordering on insane. Why is this? Sports are important but, after all, Scouting is just . . . well, Scouting.

[acco40]

For sports, proper uniforming may be crucial. In a sport like football, even what numbers one wears is crucial. Having a team dress uniformly provides easy distinction between "friend and foe." Professional sports is very image conscience (you wouldn't think so after the recent Super Bowl) and dictates such things as having shirt tails out, socks up etc. Safety is also a big issue with sports so proper helmets, shoes, pads, etc. are crucial. Also, what is key is success of the team, not individual. Therefore, a team will usually supply a uniform to those who will benefit the team.

 

Scouts is image conscience (at least the national council is) but individual units may not be as much. Safety is an issue but our uniform, while designed not to impede safety, is not specifically required for safety sake. Scouts aims apply to individuals, not teams. As such, individuals are made responsible for their uniform and while many who balk at a scouting uniform for reasons of cost really have no leg to stand on, the need for proper uniform escapes them.

 

I am dismayed at the lack of what I consider proper uniforming. Our committee recently passed two boys who just earned their 1st class rank. One showed up without a belt, another without a neckerchief (he borrowed another scouts) and both were without their hats (as a troop we have troop hats). While I don't think those uniform issues should have been pass/fail criteria, the issues were not even mentioned. (My wife is on the BOR and I asked her if it was brought up at all). As SM, I try to set an example by wearing my uniform in the proper manner. I must admit I do have a devious side. The boys like to wear their activity uniforms in the summer. After a certain date (usually in May) I allow it on a patrol by patrol basis as soon as an entire patrol passes a uniform inspection by the SPL. Make peer pressure work for you!

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"For sports, proper uniforming may be crucial. In a sport like football, even what numbers one wears is crucial. Having a team dress uniformly provides easy distinction between "friend and foe." "

 

Is the number worm by the QB that crucial? Not really, hundreds, housands of football games are played without numbers. Could that QB pass as well if his number was randomly chosen? In baseball, all the players may wear the same number (yep, it's true).

 

The point is that the uniform restrictions imposed in sports are gladly met and followed by players and parents alike. The coach doesn't give a hoot if you want to wear jeans, it's white baseball pants or you don't play.

 

 

[cliffgolden]

Hey FOG, good catch. I shouldn't cite things from the top of my head. As you say, research is always best.

 

As for the Scoutmasters Handbook, it outlines the Methods we use in Scouting. Those methods have changed from time to time. In 1962 FOG would have been using the 5th Edition, which does list the Uniform as #8 as stated. Here's a quick summary.

 

Uniform was listed as a method in:

 

3rd Edition 1936

4th Edition 1947

5th Edition 1959

7th Edition 1981

8th Edition 1990

 

Uniform was not listed as a method in:

 

Scoutmastership by Baden-Powell

1st Edition 1913

2nd Edition 1920

6th Edition 1972

 

The uniform has come and gone as a Method over the years. That's neither here nor there, since it's 2004 and we are currently using the Uniform Method in Scouting.

 

I always hear the sports analogy as a reason for buying the full uniform. People can argue over that. Another analogy might include policemen who after reaching a certain level discard their uniform to become plain clothes detectives. It doesn't diminish their crime-fighting abilities.

 

We are neither a sports team nor a police department. We are members of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

I would rather see an anology of the Uniform Method vs other methods of Scouting.

 

I see too many single out the Uniform Method and seem to treat it with much higher importance than other methods. Uniform and Advancement are the easiest to measure, and seem to be the Methods that in my view seem to be elevated to Goals by some people.

 

I have seen "merit badge mill troops" that worship full uniforming. Though they barely get out and camp, and when they do, there has to be a merit badge class attached to it. Scouting suddenly isn't a game anymore, they've turned into a resume building program.

 

I see that as losing sight of the true aims of Scouting.

 

Also...

 

Just for fun, here is another summary of the Methods of Scouting over the years. I present it only as something historical that I think is interesting. It's that "research thing".

 

Scoutmastership by Baden-Powell

I) Boy Training;

II) Character Training;

III) Physical Health and Development;

IV) Self-Improvement for Making a Career;

V) Service for Others (Chivalry and Self-Sacrifice the Basis of Religion).

 

Scoutmasters Handbook

1st Edition 1913

1) A Clear Plan, Well Thought Out, Progressive in its Stages

2) The Leader Should Tell the Boys What the Game is and How it is to be Played

3) Application of Self-Government

4) The Scout Master as a Real Leader

5) Differences, "Scraps," and Misunderstandings

6) Rules and Infringements of Rules

 

Scoutmasters Handbook

2nd Edition 1920

1) Play

2) Competition

3) Dramatization

4) Experiment

5) Observation

6) Demonstration

7) Recitation

8) Lecture

9) Book Study

 

Scoutmasters Handbook

3rd Edition 1936

1) The Boy---Individual, Patrol, Troop

2) Leadership---Trained Volunteer--In Uniform

3) Activity---Achievement with Recognition

4) Organization---Institutional...

5) Scout Oath and Law--Ideals of Service

 

Scoutmasters Handbook

4th Edition 1947

1. A Game, NOT a Science

2. Scout Patrol

3. Boy Leadership

4. Scoutmaster

5. Committee & Council

6. Adventure in the Out-of-Doors

7. Advancement);

8. Scout Uniform

9. Scout Law

10. Oath, Service, Good Turns

 

 

Scoutmasters Handbook

5th Edition 1959

1. A Game, NOT a Science

2. Scout Patrol

3. Boy Leadership

4. Scoutmaster

5. Committee & Council

6. Adventure in the Out-of-Doors

7. Advancement);

8. Scout Uniform

9. Scout Law

10. Oath, Service, Good Turns

 

 

Scoutmasters Handbook

6th Edition 1972

1) Scouting Ideals;

2) Patrols;

3) Advancement;

4) Adult Male Association;

5) Outdoor Program;

6) Leadership Development;

7) Personal Growth.

 

 

Scoutmasters Handbook

7th Edition 1981

1) Ideals;

2) Patrol Method;

3) Outdoors;

4) Advancement;

5) Adult Male Association;

6) Uniform;

7) Leadership Training;

8) Personal Growth.

 

 

Scoutmasters Handbook

8th Edition 1990

1) Ideals

2) Patrols

3) Outdoors

4) Advancement

5) Personal Growth

6) Adult Association;

7) Leadership Development

8) The Uniform

 

 

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois(This message has been edited by cliffgolden)

[acco40]

Very informative and I found it very interesting too. Thanks Mr. Golden.

 

Notice how adult male association transitioned to adult association, Scout master to Scoutmaster, play to game to "gone", etc.

 

The last two are almost identical (adult male to adult the only major change) but the order was changed. Does anyone attach any significance to the order of the methods? For example, Uniform "fell" from sixth to eighth, personal growth rose from eighth to fifth, etc.

[cliffgolden]

 

The change from Adult Male Association to Adult Association was precipitated by the removal of gender specific leadership positions.

 

As of 1989 women could become Scoutmasters, Asst Scoutmasters, and a few other Pack positions. Prior to that only men could serve in those positions. When they removed the gender restrictions from those positions they modified the methods accordingly.

 

As for the order of the methods in the listing, I've always understood them to be listed in random order, but I can't point to any specific source that to verify that as fact.

 

I think some people might place a higher priority on some methods over others. I don't know of any official hierarchy though.

 

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois