I don't get it?

[evmori]

When I took Woodbadge, there was a classroom session on backpacking. My Patrol Counselor was one of the instructors for this session. He came into the room with everything you shouldn't take backpacking including a microwave! He made his point & everyone in the room understood.

 

There are times when showing something completely wrong works. I like twocubdad's method. The Scouts will see how not to uniform & at the same time get a chuckle at the adults. A good chuckle always helps. Naturally, there should also be someone who is uniformed properly.

 

In the original post, if the intent was to embarrass the Scout then that's wrong.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[SM406]

At least the cub was there at the meeting. Sometimes that is half the battle just getting them to want to go. I agree about speaking quietly at this age group, to the Dad first about setting the example and then build on the positive of what the boy had right with his uniform.

With my sense of style (orange sleeves, way cool), if it wasn't for my wife to keep me straight, who knows what I would be wearing.

 

SM406

 

[Bob White]

Ed,

A college instructor teaches much differently then your second grade teacher did.

 

If you look back at your Wood Badge notes, you will find that adults learn differently than children. Children are far more visual in their learning than adults. In addition, a childs limited experience does not allow him the same filtering that an adult has developed over the years.

 

As an instructor it is necessary to deliver the lesson in a way that your audience can receive and process it. Showing the wrong method and expecting a child to be able through experience or deduction to extract the correct method is not compatible to their abilities or thought process at that age.

 

Bob White

 

[Twocubdad]

If I had arrived at the meeting dressed as I was, said nothing about my appearance, conducted the pack meeting as usual and relied on a bunch of 8-year-olds to comprehend the subtlety of my point, then you would be 100% correct, Bob. But I would be a moron to think that is effective.

 

The bad example, all by itself, is no more effective than standing in front of a comatose audience explaining the fine points of service star spacing. It's part of a process which includes leaders being well uniformed, providing inspection sheets to the Scouts and parents, praising boys who are properly uniformed (from time to time, we randomly select a Scout in full uniform and award him a small prize), and privately talking to boys who are grossly out of uniform. The bad example is only part of that process. Only part of it's purpose is to demonstrate the wrong way of doing things. It's primary function is to provide a little levity to the program. If a Scout or parent sees himself or their son in the bad example, that's just gravy.

[Bob White]

"The bad example is only part of that process."

 

That could very well be twocubdad, but it was also the only part of the skit that you explained in your post. Do not blame me for my comments, if you do not share the entire presentation.

 

Bob White

 

 

[evmori]

"Children are far more visual in their learning than adults"

 

This is a fact I guess. And if so, then by doing what twocubdad did and also having someone correctly uniformed would really drive home a point to the kids!

 

I must be a kid cause I learn better if I can see, too!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Twocubdad]

"So while I'm standing there dressed like a slob, the Cubmaster is going down the line of adults, checking their uniforms, praising one for having a spiffy bolo, pointing out the significance of the funny wooden beads another wears, knocking off points for one not wearing a Scout belt. Quickly, checking whether or not the leaders is wearing official socks becomes a big deal. The leaders ham it up, slowly pulling up their pants legs. Big cheers for the guys with official socks, big groans for the others."

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Bob White]

Again fine entertainment. But you showed them uniforms that they don't even wear. If you expect a child to translate seeing a uniform that is a different design, different color, has awards they don't have and badges they don't have, into understanding what they should wear and how they should wear it, then you have a real up-hill battle on your hands. Kids just do not think that way.

 

They laughed, that's great. They got to cheer and moan at the adults, always a fun thing. But did they learn, and did the learning result in significant measurable changes? The chances are small.

 

Bob White

[saltheart]

Incredible as you may find this, Bob, children do, in fact, learn in a variety of ways, one of which might be the way you seem to be insisting is the one and only. The scenarios presented by others here, all of which seem to be nearly diametrically opposed to your way of thinking, actually do work, and have worked for years untold, long before you and I were even a thought to those who bore us. Each and every one who has presented a different opinion here likely has positive experience with the methods they've posted. And no one seems to be preaching that their way is the one and only.

 

So, why do you stand so high on the soapbox and preach that others who do not follow your lead and words are going far astray and off the path? Methinks thou protesteth too much.....

[evmori]

"They laughed, that's great. They got to cheer and moan at the adults, always a fun thing. But did they learn, and did the learning result in significant measurable changes? The chances are small."

 

Fun and educational all at the same time! And visual! Children are far more visual in their learning than adults.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

[Twocubdad]

Forgive me, Bob, I didn't understand that to make a point about one detail of our program I had to substantiate it with a description of our entire program. If you offer a post about how you teach your Scouts to season a Dutch oven should I assume that you are failing to teach any other part of campcraft?

 

Yes, in addition to the "skit" at the pack meeting we do other things to teach the Scout proper uniforming. For the record, we ask our adult leaders to correctly wear their uniforms and set a good example(although according to your last post, we can drop that since there is no correlation between the adult uniforms and the Cubs). At the beginning of the year, we include uniforming on the agenda for our annual leaders' conference, the new parents' orientation and our general meeting of all parents. We explain to the parents the purpose of the uniform and the lessons we are trying to teach the boys with it. As for the boys, they are all given a copy of the uniform inspection sheet at the beginning of the year and asked to check their own uniforms with their parents. Den leaders are encouraged to hold informal inspections and talk about uniforming during den meetings. Some of them play the Pin the Badge on the Cub Scout game we are taught in training. We occasionally select a random Scout in full uniform and hold him up as an example of a properly dressed Scout and give him a small reward. Personally, I try to compliment Scouts when appropriate. And yes, if a Scout is grossly miss-wearing the uniform, we may pull him aside and mention it. On a district level, as Roundup Chairman last year, I came up with the idea of making the day before School Night Round-up uniform day and encourage all our Scouts to wear their uniforms to school.

 

We have not had a formal uniform inspection since I've been in the pack, but we plan to. The purpose of the leader inspection was to lead by example -- we're not asking anything of the boys we aren't willing to do. We also tried to show that the inspection could be fun and not the equivalent of being sent to the principal's office. But most importantly, we wanted to make the point to the Scouts and their parents that proper uniforming is important simply by the fact that we are taking the time to talk about it. True, pointing out a leader's Eagle square knot or Woodbadge beads doesn't mean much to a Cub, but the overall effect is to show that we care about being properly uniformed and take pride in it.

 

Measurable changes? Hard to say. Honestly I can't say that any of the above methods result in measurable changes. You nibble at it from various sides and trust that the combination work. Maybe one boy responds to an inspection, another boy responds to a private conversation, and another to a silly skit. We just try to run a good program the way we've been trained. The results flow from there.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[fotoscout]

Hi Bob,

 

Sorry I missed this one, but you obviously missed my rely to a similar comment that was made in the other thread.

 

I have no doubt that the boy would not have been humiliated as that was not the intent, nor was it the purpose! For those of you whose minds travel in that direction, I submit that you may need to tame your personal demons. As for the boy, he would not be wearing the same costume two weeks in a row, and would certainly not remember what he was wearing the week before. The point here, as was mentioned in the other thread, was directed at the parent(s) of this particular boy.

 

Additionally, the game of it was intended to be very similar to the uniform inspection done by TwoCub.

 

Someone mentioned warmth, sorry Laurie but I did chuckle at that one, this had nothing to do with warmth. The sweat pants were just a convenient thing for the boy to put on and the parents allowed it. The orange shirt.. yes, many of the boys wear long sleeve shirts under their short sleeve uniform shirts. The long sleeve shirt always compliments the uniform in one way or another. They may be blue or yellow, or even a neutral black or white, but orange?

 

Going back to Bobs original question, how do we promote proper uniforms.The simple answer is of course by example. The more complex answer is by promotion. We conduct uniform inspections, we initiate and maintain a dialog about uniforms, and we recognizing those who are in the proper uniform.

 

Ive said this before and Ill repeat it again because it warrants repeating; no CS ever said I dont want to wear the uniform, the boys love to wear the uniform and are proud of wearing it, the boys are not he target audience here, the parents are!

 

 

[Bob White]

"the boys are not he target audience here, the parents are"

 

Then perhaps you should be mimmicking the parents and not the children?

 

I think gambling a child's self image on the belief that he has a short memory is not a reasonable course of action or respectful of the scouts we serve.

Bob White

 

[Laurie]

Ah, fotoscout, laughter is a good thing Hey, I have reasons for saying warmth though. My son became a member of a troop that encourages short-sleeved Scout shirts so they can be worn year-round, in the winter with a long-sleeved shirt. Since they didn't specify the color of the shirt, I see a boy who regularly wears orange with his shirt (cringe!), and then there's the boy who doesn't button his shirt. And some of you think TUCKING in shirts is a problem? LOL! Seriously, it seems that they need to be told every detail. As for Cubs, I'm in agreement with all: those boys LOVE their uniforms and take great pride in them. As they get older, the tastes can sure get strange though. However, I remain uncomfortable with what appeared--in the first post--to be a singling out of one Scout.

[fotoscout]

I think gambling a child's self image on the belief that he has a short memory is not a reasonable course of action or respectful of the scouts we serve.

 

Now folks, who are we really kidding here. Isnt this what happens EVERY time you conduct a uniform inspection. Praise in public, reprimand in private, are you inspecting the partially uniformed scouts in a private location? Of course not! I dont care how you do it, it is impossible to conduct a uniform inspection without some kids feelings being hurt. You simply cant do it without bringing attention to the unkempt kid or the kid whose family truly doesn't have the money for proper uniform parts. You may lavish volumes of praise and recognition on the well uniformed kids, but at the same time your silence to the others is disenfranchising them. After all, the purpose of a uniform inspection is not get the well dressed scouts to dress better, the purpose is to get the out of uniform scouts (and leaders) into the proper uniform. If you think that you are not humiliating the out of uniform kids when you do a uniform inspection, then you really need to reevaluate your perspective.

 

Let me go back to private location for a second. You may be conducting your uniform inspections individually, away from the group, but in the same room. Certainly acceptable, and a nice touch, but do you think for one minute that all of the kids dont know whats happening in that corner of the room when my kid in the costume is called to come over.

 

I personally would prefer to make a spectacle of myself while making the point, then to use a bunch of young boys to make that same point.