photos of Scouts in improper uniform

[Proud Eagle]

Has anyone else noticed the tendency of national publications of various forms to publish pictures of scouts in absolutely terrible uniforms? I am thinking of the Eagletter and the Elks magazine. I know the BSA handbook and some other BSA publications also have this problem. Last time I looked at one of my dad's Elks magazines they had many Eagles who had recieved various awards pictured. I don't think a single one of them had a correct uniform on. Most had on jeens or khaki pants. Some had one sash over their shoulder and the other on a belt. Some had patches very far from the correct place. Several had one sash over one shoulder and the other over the other shoulder. (I have never seen any one do this outside of pictures.) The greatest problem seemed to be pants and OA sashes not conforming to uniform standards. Maybe the OA sashes just get my attention because I am a former Lodge Chief, but to me it is a bit embarrassing to see so few good examples of a uniformed Scout in so many published pictures. The Elks I can give a pass on publishing these pictures, but for the Eagletter, or the Handbook editors, to allow it seems almost to be encouraging poor uniforming.

 

I really don't consider myself to be one of the uniform police. I don't even own a copy of the insignia guide.

 

Am I overreacting to this constant streem of pictures of poorly uniformed Scouts (almost all Eagles, some at their own Courts of Honor) ?

 

Also, why do many feel compelled to wear an OA sash (almost always an Ordeal sash) to a BOR or COH? It seems to me that someone who features their sash so proudly on their uniform on such a special occasion should have had enough pride in being an Arrowman to come back to the events of their lodge after their Ordeal and get their Brotherhood. If OA involvement is a major part of someone's Scouting experience I can understand wearing a sash at a COH, but your average Ordeal member doesn't fit the profile of someone who has made OA into a major part of their Scouting experience.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

It's all part of the "pick your battles" mentality and the "if you make a fuss, they'll quit" mentality, which one it is depends on the situation. Of course, we also have the "what does it matter" mentality.

 

Not long ago, I pointed out to a mom that her son was wearing a patch that he shouldn't be wearing. Her response was, "I sewed that thing on so it will stay on."

 

You'd think that BSA would be able to find properly uniformed Scouts for their own publications.

 

Unfortunately, there are no penalties for not doing things the right way. I've been trying to roll proper uniforming into the annual patrol competition. Oh boy! You;d have thought that I had suggested animal sacrifice. "That's not fair to the boys who are coming from baseball games" (Change at the meeting) "That's not fair to the boys who can't find their uniforms" (make them hang it up)

[LauraT7]

I answered this on the other board - but on thing you do have to realize is that most of those photos in the scouting magazines and other publication were not 'posed' by the uniform police -

 

If I'm taking photos of my troop's boy's in action on a camporee or summer camp, I am not going to stop the action to tell some kid to tuck in his shirt or to go change into his uniform pants from yesterday, or to take of the patch that mom sewed onto the wrong side of his uniform.... I'm going to snap the photo and hope that people will see the IMPORTANT part - scouts having FUN - and that they will overlook a uniform error.

 

I do, however, AT MEETINGS, try to promote correct uniforming - to the point of telling the boys that if they wear the troop t-shirt under their uniform shirt whent they come to meetings, that I will sew, or teach them to sew, their patches on correctly. Despite my offer, very few take me up on it.

 

It always amazes me how some people treat sewing on a few little patches as being almost as difficult as running the Boston marathon or performing surgery!

 

As FOG suggests, many people put up barriers to wearing the uniforms - and to be truthful, it is sometimes difficult to have my son's and my uniforms clean and unwrinkled on the appointed Monday meeting day - especially if we have been camping that weekend. It often means that we come home tired and dirty and I immediately have to do laundry. To add to it, My son and I are both ADD and very disorganised, and our home is often cluttered. But somehow we always manage to show up in full uniform! I figure if we can do it - others can, too!

 

the one family I can see giving lenience to, is two boys in our troop that live in an apartment. Because both parents work nights and they do laundry at the laundromat - it may not be possible for them to get a weekend dirtied uniform clean and wearable from sunday night to monday night. I can see that other families might have a similar problem, sometimes.

[Proud Eagle]

FOG:

I know exactly what you are talking about. I haven't quite given up on uniforms yet. I know that the way things are it is too much to ask for everyone to be in complete uniform. So I will limmit the fight to a correct uniform shirt worn with some amount of dignity for the moment. Perhaps I shall add to that quest a push for Eagles to go the full measure during their Boards of Review and Courts of Honor. That really shouldn't be too much to ask.

 

Laura, (responding to your post in the other thread):

Now that you mention it, I don't really like the general public seeing Scouts that are not correctly uniformed in such settings as a Presidential phot op. However, that wasn't really the reason for my complaint. I think that showing people off in various publications sets a bad example to other Scouts. If they see an Eagle who won a college scholarship from the Elks not wearing a uniform, it could make an impression that uniforms are not necessary. Also, these various people winning these awards and what not should have enough pride in their accomplishments to wear the uniform correctly. Clearly action photos are a different story. If a troop is out camping I don't expect them to be in complete uniform. Activities uniforms are fine. Aslo, you can strip down the uniform to a relatively simple form and still have it be complete and correct. There is no rule saying you must wear every sash, patch, pin, or medal you have earned. There are rules saying that if you wear an item it must be worn correctly. If someone is posing for a photo after their court of honor with three generations of Ealges in their family, then I would expect them to be in complete, correct uniform, or something very close to it.

 

Uniforms may not be required in Scouting, but they are necessary.

 

As to the OA lodge not being very active, that is not an excuse to wear the OA sash in ways or at times that are not appropriate. Just because a local NESA chapter isn't active doesn't mean that Eagles in that area should start wearing their Eagle any way they happen to want to.

 

(response to reply in this thread):

In almost all cases some allowances must be made for indiviual special circumstances. If a family is in a situation that makes it difficult to do laundry then that is OK. If some family really can't afford the entire uniform immediately that is OK (it is also a good reason to have a uniform bank). We should not confuse this with the 17 year old that has their own vehicle and chooses to belong to both band and the troop, who never has on a uniform and claims they don't have time to drive home and change cloths. I am not suggesting some policy that tells people to either be in perfect uniform or stay home.

 

I happen to agree with you very strongly on one point. I happen to think that if a unit leader, who must spend time helping the unit, is able to find time to keep herself and her son in uniform despite challenges, then those families that just drop the kids and go should be able to find time to keep up on uniforming. Keep up the good work. Your good example will have some positive impact. Just don't undercut it by saying to everyone that shows up out of uniform, "oh, your not in uniform, well, you did just get out of soccer and that is just as important so it is OK, uniforms really aren't that big a deal anyway..."

(This message has been edited by Proud Eagle)(This message has been edited by Proud Eagle)

[Fat Old Guy]

"If I'm taking photos of my troop's boy's in action on a camporee or summer camp, "

 

That's a bit different than taking pictures for the Scout Handbook, PL Handbook, SM Handbook, etc.. Considering the expense that goes into these books, they could provide the models with correct uniforms or only use Scouts who are uniformed correctly as models.