Uniform Police?

[Twocubdad]

A little off topic (so what else is new?) but does anyone know of a way to find out where the nationally-owned stores are located? They are usually very well stocked and are willing to order non-stock items for you without a commitment. If any of you neighboring Councils have one, it may be worth a little drive time.

 

On another tack, much of this could be solved if National would revise it's return policy. Making the problem Bob describes worse is the fact that national won't let a local Scout shop return anything once they order is (if the folks at our council store are telling me the truth). I'm sure it's a pain, but if I can mail order something and send it back if it doesn't fit, why can I get that same service through the stores?

 

 

[Bob White]

Help me out Laura7

You wrote "If the BSA REALLY wants scouts and scouters to wear the WHOLE uniform - maybe they should take a look at WHO is wearing it? and make it fit better and more available?"

 

Then you wrote"I never said I thought National didn't make them available....."

 

You said more available, and it is as available as any other uniform piece providing your local scout shop orders it.

 

As far as making them to fit better..fit who better. We have over 6 million people in uniform. If the uniform fit 8 out of 10 people just fine (I do not know any cut of clothing that does), there would still be over 1,200,000 scouts and scouters complaining about the uniform. It's an impossible fight to win.

 

As far as making the field uniform suitable for its intended use, I think you need to revisit the handbook and see what the intended use is. For formal occasions, meetings and public appearances the field uniform works fine. If you are using it for outdoor activities you are in the wrong uniform.

 

Bob White

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[dsteele]

I'm a big proponent of the cotton or poly/wool pants. I also agree that ordering them can be a problem -- the shipping reasons mentioned, etc.

 

There is another option, although it is not without its down-sides. You can order uniform parts made to measure to your specific measurements.

 

The down-sides are that you have to order a minimum of 2 pieces that you are having made to your measurements; there is a fair delay between placing your order and receiving your uniform parts; you have to have measurements that can't be fit by traditional size; once they are made, they are yours -- so don't let just anyone measure you.

 

I suppose I could argue in defense of the off the rack poly/cotton uniform pants -- but I've been honest with you this long and would hate to try to lie to you now

 

I'm a natural fibers kinda guy.

 

DS

[Twocubdad]

So Bob, having 1.2 million dissatisfied customers is okay? Does that work in your business?

 

Let's see ... the pants are about $40 bucks. That's $48 million in revenues and even at miminal margins, we're talking $5 million net. Not bad numbers, especially when you consider it's on top of the other 4.8 million pants you already sold.

 

All Laura is suggesting is that National consider that the uniform pants are worn by other than 12-year-old boys. I'm not saying every Scout shop should have a pair of 82 waist, 22 inseam pants, but where's the downside in adding a line of ladies cut pants and mens full sizes. Given the membership numbers, there is no reason they can't offer uniform pants in a variety of cuts. Go in any retail store and they offer 100 different cuts, waist sizes and inseam lengths of the same basic denim blue jean. This doesn't include different colors and styles.

 

And don't try to tell me that they can't support that many different sizes and cuts. I don't buy it. If they can afford to still carry blue coulottes, they can offer different cuts of the basic olive uniform pant.

 

By the way, I took your suggestion and revisited page 13 of the handbook. It says, "For outdoor activities, Scouts may wear troop or camp T-shirts with the official Scout pants or shorts." So whether you're in the full field uniform or the activity uniform, it's the same pants. So how does Laura have the wrong uniform?

[Fat Old Guy]

Gotta love the term "Field Uniform," especially since it isn't intended to be worn in the field.

 

I want to know what wacko thought up the elastic waistband. My son refuses to wear them. The Scout Shop manager says that he's never heard a positive comment about the elastic waistband. Anyway, an elastic waistband for adults? Come on!

[Twocubdad]

I though the elastic waistband was one of the good points of the pants. My biggest complaint is that they are all so short in the crotch -- they look like (AND FEEL!) like something Brittany Spears would wear.

[Bob White]

So Bob, having 1.2 million dissatisfied customers is okay? Does that work in your business?

 

It hasn't hurt Microsft!

 

"Let's see ... the pants are about $40 bucks. That's $48 million in revenues and even at miminal margins, we're talking $5 million net.'

 

Actually it's more like $1,600,000.00 net. Most clothes have a 50% GP margin so the actual gross net is about $24 million assuming the that all 1,200,000 bought their pants in the same year, VERY unlikely. Anyway at the very best a business usually only nets 7% of gross profit. So that brings us to $1,600,000.00 or about $1.33 per pair of slacks. Not what you would call a big money maker, and thats at the maximum expected return.

 

Bob White

 

 

[dsteele]

I admire Twocubdad. I really do.

 

With all due respect, however, there is a significant flaw in his math. The flaw is that each council owned and operated Scout Shop is its own franchise owned by the local council. There are a few major-metropolitan Scout Shops run by the national supply division, but most councils have to order and stock the inventory based on their own cash which comes from primarily FOS, popcorn, Camp Revenue and United Way income.

 

They aren't going to stock a pair of shorts, pants, coulotts, etc. for every member in every size. It's just not practical.

 

DS

[evmori]

"It hasn't hurt Microsft!"

 

So that makes it OK?

[Bob White]

Ed when you have a cusomer base that large you have to understand you will never please everyone. So you do the best you can to please the largest customer base as possible.

 

 

[evmori]

And the BSA Supply Division is doing that how regarding the uniform pants?

[Bob White]

Ed, how many years have you been in scouting. Are the pants you are wearing now the same style, structure, and material the they have always been, or have they changed from time to time?

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[scoutldr]

How can you tell if you're in a National Scout Shop vs. a Local Council-owned shop? The employees will be in full uniform, with gold loops, no council strip, and an "Employee" position patch. It will also be well-stocked with just about every item and publication in the catalog. Some that come to mind that I have visited are at the National Scouting Museum in Irving, and National Capital Area Council in Bethesda, MD.

[Twocubdad]

Thank you for your comments, Dave. It's always a pleasure to debate with a gentleman.

 

But I addressed your point in my earlier post. Under the current system it is a problem for small shops to stock low volume items. But their are several ways it could be solved. First of all, the pant cuts we are talking about are not rare. I'm talking about two new cuts of pants, one for ladies and one for grown men. Last Scout function I went to, there were plenty of both demographics represented. It's not as if I'm suggesting we stock pants for people with three legs. Right now, those cuts aren't offered at all, so the question of what a small, local shop can stock is moot. And if a shop stocks a low volume pair of pants it's not as if they're going out of style next month. Scout uniforms have a long, long shelf life.

 

As I mentioned earlier, National could help the situation by changing their return policy from the shops. Unless our council's store manager is blowing smoke (which, admittedly, is probable), they're not allowed to return anything. So FOG goes in and orders a pair of the wool blend pants to see if they are better to his liking but then decides they're not. The shop is stuck with them. As a service to it's customers, national could allow returns on low volume items or even allow shops to stock them on a consignment basis.

 

And I know this is possible because the national stores operate just this way. Our neighboring council has a nationally-run store which is a pleasure to use. They have a very broad selection and can get anything they don't have in a matter of days.

 

Questions for you, Dave. If operating a Scout Shop requires so much capital to stock and operates on such small margins, why don't more council's let national run their stores for them?

 

As to the number crunching, one thing left out of your equation, Bob, is that most business' bottom line is net after taxes. BSA is tax exempt. I won't try to recalculate the numbers since they are all based on gross guesses none of us are qualified to make anyway.

 

Funny you should mention Microsoft. They can get away with a large portion of their customer being unhappy because they are a functional monopoly (if not a legal one). Many Microsoft customers have no choice as to whether or not the use Microsoft products. True, there are other products out there and no one is forcing you to use Windows, but for most folks if you want to buy and use a computer, you're going to use Windows. You can draw your own parallels between that and Scout uniforms.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[evmori]

Bob,

They are different. They took the big cargo pockets away & added elastic to the waistband! I don't feel this is a good thing. I loved the cargo pockets. And the elastic in the waistband is a pain! I realize I am only one person but lots of people I know would rather have the cargo pockets back.

 

Ed