ilduncans Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 In the insignia guide, on the page near the back where it discusses flags, there is a paragraph on memorial gold stars which may be placed on a unit flag in memory of a former scout who died in the service of his country. On Veteran's Day I am going to participate with a Pack & Troop in a ceremony with the family to present these stars in memory of a former scout who was killed in action in Afghanistan. I have ordered the stars from the supply division already. Unfortunately, there appears to be little/no background on this award -- My question is two-fold 1> Is there any resource in existance that might help in putting together this ceremony. (any unit who has ever done this?) 2> What is the BSA position on this unit recognition? When did we start doing this, and why do we do it? I can write my own answers and write my own ceremony ... but am looking for inputs from others. I have already contacted my district and council professional staff, visited with the oldest and wisest volunteers, and been directed to the Boy Scout Division at national (who are visiting with historians at the museum in Irving today) ... this unit recognition appears to have been forgotten in the mists of time. The only people I have found who are aware of this unit recognition have not seen it in use since the post-WW2 era. This forum has the distinction of being the --only-- match I have found on the web: http://www.scouter.com/archives/Scouts-L/199908/0003.asp Any help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 My hunch is that you're not going to find any BSA resources for conducting the ceremony. I'd suggest working with the chaplain from the serviceman's unit or perhaps a local reserve unit. Maybe some of the military guys on the board can direct you to some better resources within the service. One idea which occurs to me would be to embroider the serviceman's name onto the star before applying it to the flag. Twenty years from now, none of the Scouts or leaders may remember who he was. You could do it in gold-on-gold so the lettering is unobtrusive. I don't know if that would be "official" but it sure ought to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisely Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I have never heard of this and cannot offer any suggestions. I just want to say that this is a really great idea. It not only honors those who sacrificed, but brings home the idea of service and sacrifice to the ideals of scouting. The good news is that we have no one eligible for this recognition in our unit history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overtrained Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I have heard of this and seem to remember seeing something on it in an old troop activities/ceremonies book from the early 50's. I'll do my best to find it. Dave Steele has mentioned a link to the archivist at the national museum before. Perhaps they could help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsteele Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Overtrained said what I was going to say before I could say it. It seems the National Scouting Museum in Irving, TX is your best resource. From my experience it seems that they have volunteers who research questions such as yours. I don't have the museum's phone number at hand, but you can probably find them on the internet. Do not call the national office looking for it. They are different entities. I don't have any knowledge about the stars or a ceremony to give you. I'd never heard of them either, but sure like your idea. DS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 National Scouting Museum Boy Scouts of America, S505 1329 West Walnut Hill Lane Irving, TX 75038 800-303-3047 972-580-2100 e-mail: nsmuseum@netbsa.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduncans Posted September 19, 2003 Author Share Posted September 19, 2003 Thanks, all, for the pointers. So far, the woman who took my initial call to the Boy Scout Division, (National), has been extremely helpful, and was working with the Museum (even though it is a separate entity, as was pointed out), and separately was going to work with the Supply Division to see if we could determine if any others had been purchased in recent history. Very helpful folks down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob58 Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I had a frined who claimned that "Bob always clears legal" meanng that it always okay to use the name Bob -- no famous BAD GUYS or other reasons not to use the name. This time Bob really came through for me (another Bob!) Had occasion to visit my local scout shop today, and very fine scout shop it is! I asked Bob if he had ever heard of Memorial Stars for unit flags and he had to admit that he hadn't... but he did whip out a "2003-2005 uniform & Insignia Guide"(sic)and he found it!. BSA publication # 3017633066 (or is that just the "bar code"?) The star itself is item # 11117 & it may be affixed tgo units flags in memory of members of the unit who dies in the service of their country. (Someone w/ the Insignia Guide might be able to provide more info (the shop's copier was down.) I hope this helps... Bob (the other one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob58 Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Bob does not always use spell check... my friend claimed.... Regrets, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matuawarrior Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I was just browsing the archives when I ran into this thread again and reread each post. It seems to me that the "Gold Star" is placed on the Unit Flag for "Members" who died in the service of thier Country. If that is being the case, then it is true to say that, "Once A Scout Always A Scout". I like the idea of the Gold on Gold embroidery for the names of those who have gave thier lives in service for thier country. Thinking Outloud, Matua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduncans Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 Indeed -- it appears for this context to be the case that "once a Scout, always a Scout." Interestingly, BSA do not appear to have any documented requirements around this unit recognition. In fact in all our preparations, we found almost nothing to assist us in preparing for this. Even the museum came up empty on this one. Despite some heroic efforts, all national could provide was one name of a military officer that had ordered a pair of gold stars for another unit. By the time this bit of information was received, we had already written our own ceremony and circulated it back to the local folks in Boulder Dam Area Council. The local units have been OUTSTANDING in their support of this effort, arranging for media coverage (including Boys' Life magazine!) We're actually on our way to the airport shortly to fly out for the ceremony this coming Tuesday (Veterens' Day, 11-Nov), at 2pm in the Veterans' Memorial Park in Boulder City, NV. All are welcome to join us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsteele Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Ilduncans, congratulations on what sounds like a great ceremony. Two things about Boy's Life (it's great that they're sending someone): 1. It can take several months for the story to appear in the magazine. They covered an event in a council I was serving, and it hit the magazine 18 months after the fact. 2. Please have all the Scouts and leaders in perfect uniform. Otherwise a thread will start about Scouts not in proper uniform having their picture in a national magazine, etc. Actually, my sarcasm in #2 is not aimed at the difficulties of having all the boys and adults in perfect uniform, but at the difficulties of publishing a magazine that only photos the ideal in a real world. DS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduncans Posted November 12, 2003 Author Share Posted November 12, 2003 Despite a logistical near-catastrophe (Veterans' cemetary is not the same place as Veterans' Memorial Park, but fortunately less than a mile apart), the ceremony came off wonderfully. I only wish I had a way to connect a few more of our units with their former members who have fallen in the service of our nation. With the sincere hope that no one has any need of it, I would be happy to share the ceremony we composed and used. (just drop a reply here, and I get an email). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingagain Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I would be interested in the ceremony. This looks like a good Troop service project for our Troop Historian, to research former members that have gone on to military service. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Interesting thread. Unfortunately, there are probably quite a few Troops that ought to be sporting gold stars on their units flags these days. In an ideal world, perhaps Districts or Councils would have a volunteer willing to investigate whether service men or women killed in the war on terror have been Cub or Boy Scouts, and encourage those units to recognize the service of those one time members. As I see obituaries on war casualties, I will keep an eye out for indications that they were Scouts, with an aim of notifying their units of this kind of recognition. It just might be comforting to surviving family members to have their son remembered and honored in a unit the families once participated in. Seattle Pioneer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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