Backpacks for younger scouts

[yarrow]

Just read an article on backpacks in the Backpacking mag.

For packing, cost and durablity they seemed to recomment the Jack Wolfskin Trailhead. Anyone own one. Like it?

What do ya'll use?

[Mike Long]

Before I begin please note that I am a backpacking enthuseist and I regularly log several hundred miles a year (500+) backpacking and my standards in packs are severe.

 

I strongly discourage buying internal frame packs for young scouts, here's why.

 

Internal frame pack sizing is tied directly to torso length. As the child grows his pack can not "grow" with him. Meaning in about 2 to 3 years he will outgrow it and it WILL cause back problems. Then you need to buy him another pack long before the internal pack even begins to wear out. The internal models I have seen that claim to "grow" with you don't do a very good job of it.

 

Keeping that in mind cost becomes a huge issue. GOOD internal frame packs always cost AT LEAST $200 and most quality internal packs run $250+. Why spend that amount when you know that you will just be spending it again in two years? There is an old rule of thumb that my outfitter friend shared with me. If you are planning to spend less than $200 on a pack get a high end external frame model and save the money if you are willing to spend a little more go internal.

 

Weight, internal frame packs weigh more than externals. Externals hover around 3 to 4 pounds. Internals average 6 to 7 pounds. (of course there are always exceptions both ways) An internal with a good suspension will compensate for the extra weight though.

 

Here's what I suggest to all my new Scouts. My personal favorite pack for young scouts is the Jansport Scout (Campmor around $90) The frame on this pack telescopes so it can truly grow with a child. To give you an idea of how well the pack adjusts my hiking buddy just got one for his 7 year old and it fits great also one of my Senior Scouts at 6'2" 175lbs still uses his. The bag size is big enough for weekenders and for longer trips extra gear can be strapped to the frame without a problem. Jansport also supports their product. My Assistant Scoutmaster broke a weld on his 1974 Jansport and they just sent him a new frame without any hassle.

 

Camp Trails and Kelty also make great external frame packs but I think the Jansport Scout can adjust better to the needs of a growing Scout. My first pack was a Camp Trails external my folks got me in '85 and I just now '01 wore out the straps. Good product.

 

I am not against internals, my wife and I both prefer to use them ourselves. She uses a Gregory Robson Pro and I use a Dana Design Terraplane. I just think it is foolish to invest the money in a pack for a young scout just so they can outgrow it in a few years. Get an external, save the $100+ dollars and let him get many years of use out of it. THEN if he decides that he really loves Scouting and backpacking and stops growing so radically get him a really nice internal as a reward for being a swell kid with the money you saved. You know, a suprise for his first long distance hike or Philmont trek or possibly earning his Eagle.

 

All that being said... Yes, Jack Wolfskin makes a great product and that particular pack is a steal at $200. One problem, they are a German company and I don't know just how available they are in the States. Check their site wolfskin.com

 

BTW- Mr. Gregory of Gregory Backpacks is an Eagle Scout. Says so right in the catalog.

We are everywhere.

 

Hope this helps.

[eisely]

Mike Long has far more experience in this area than I do. I too personally prefer external frame packs, but I do not have Mike's depth of experience. I have a question for Mike.

 

The biggest problem I have observed with youth and backpacks, regardless of manufacturer or style, is that most new scouts are too skinny for the waistbands. Consequently it is very difficult to get the packs to ride properly on their hips. It would be great if manufacturers would come out with skinny waistbands one could purchase separately and substitute when necessary. Any thoughts on this subject?

[Mike Long]

Eisely I had the same problem when I was a lad. I was a walking, breathing stick figure, literally. (6' 4" 150 lbs soaking wet at 13)

 

Most major brands do carry different size hip belts the problem is that most retailers don't carry them and usually the sales people are so ignorant of backpacking they don't even know that they can get other sizes. Unless you get the pack from a knowledgable outfitter that will take the time to custom fit the pack you will probably need to get a different size belt elsewhere.

 

Some tidbits of info.

 

First off, never buy a pack that the intended user has never tried on. Find one somewhere and try it on. This is much more important with internals than externals. I have no qualms with buying an external without trying it on.

 

Please, please, please talk to someone at the store WHO ACTUALLY BACKBACKS MORE THAN ONCE A YEAR AND OWNS AN INTERNAL before considering an internal for your son. There are a lot of book bags out there that masquerade as backpacks. The outdoorsy look is "in" and unless you get good advice your boy is heading for back problems. Trust me, I had spinal problems at 13 and this is (very obviously, sorry don't mean to preach) a sticking point for me.

 

If some of you are still dead set on an internal for a little scout you will probably need to get a womens extra small hipbelt so always check Ladies sizes if the Men's sizes are too big. Most quality internals can interchange differrent sized hip and shoulder straps but when the boy gets taller he's out of luck.

 

If you just love the pack but can't get a belt to fit then modify the belt.

 

Fix #1 (What I did to my first pack)

Usually belts have a thick padded portion and a thin strap part that is adjustable. Take the belt and put it around your boy WITHOUT it buckled. Now with him holding the belt in place take the thin strap part and fold it back against the thick padded area of the belt and saftey pin it about 4 to 6 inches back. Now fasten the belt normally. The strap part will overlap itself but when tightened the buckle shoud now be able to ride over the padded section. See if it that will give the belt enough play to tighten securely against his hips. If so then stitch the strap in place with heavy thread or fishing line. When he gets bigger just cut the thread and the belt is back to normal size.

 

Fix #2

Get some memory foam or closed cell foam rubber (something firm but will still mold to your hips) and stitch it inside of the hip belt as a sort of liner. Some folk go all the way and stitch in another hip belt with the strap section cut off. The foam rubber approach works great for converting old packs with unpadded hip belts to a useable state.

 

The best thing I ever did was to get over the fear of modifing my gear. It is amazing how much better my old external works with a few added straps.

 

I am working on our troop web site right now and I will be adding our suggested gear list to the site. The gear list does have a lot of suggestions and tips for selecting gear and it gets specific as to brands and models. If you are interested the site is troop623.com I'm still working on it so it's not where I want it to be yet but I'll let you know when the info is there.

[eisely]

Thanx for the thoughtful, and thorough, response.

[scouter659]

External-Jansport "Ranier"...roughly $99. Perfect size/perfect wieght for me and I see a few boys in the Troop with them too!

[OldGreyEagle]

Another thought that has had great success in our troop is for the younger boys to buy "womens" backpacks. They are designed for smaller shoulders and have smaller waist belts and I think what you are thinking, they do not all come in pink or magenta. On most of them there are no "female" markers and this may be an alternative.

[eisely]

A further thought on the internal vs external debate: One advantage of the external frame pack is that you can adjust where the load is carried to match your hiking conditions. You can carry it low for rough terrain where balance and stability are desired, or you can carry it high on flatter terrain. Another consideration is comfort in hot weather. An internal frame pack rides closer to one's body. An external frame pack allows more air circulation between your back and your pack.

 

I have a feeling this could go on as long as the discussion on tents.

[scamp]

Your advice on backpacks for younger Scouts is very timely. We just bridged over six Webelos last night and expect at least six more in the near future. Our troop is definitely loaded with 12 and under Scouts.

 

I am looking for a video that might serve as a good introduction to backpacking for these young scouts. Our April outing will be a short (I mean less than five mile) trip with a one night stay. I wanted to get these kids fired up about backpacking with a video and then the rest of the meetings will involve the older scouts teaching the younger scouts about packing a pack, footwear and other gear, cooking, etc. I already have the Philmont Trek orientation tape. Any other suggestions? Thanks

[Mike Long]

Wow, I just got back from a week of backpacking in the Smokies with my older boys. (VERY difficult trip! Yikes!) Looks like y'all have been busy.

 

The Jansport Ranier pack is the same frame as the Scout only with a bigger pack bag attached and is another excellent choice.

 

External verses Internal debate going on a long time? Good Lord Eisely, this one has more opinions than the chicken and egg debate :-)

 

Yes, externals are cooler than internals due to the airspace between the frame and packbag, no argument there. As far as the balance issue you must understand what each pack was designed for. Externals are designed for fairly well graded trails with very little off-trail scrambling. Internals are primarily alpine and off trail packs designed for conditions where a centered and low center of gravity could mean the difference between life and death. Internals are designed to go places where externals would have great difficulty IE. thick undergrowth, poorly graded or broken trails, icy conditions ect. In short, conditions that would make a Tour Leaders head spin with visions of liability and law suits. I have never used an external that gave me the true "centered" feeling of my internal.

 

I'm not going to debate the virtues of internals any more as it might get some folks to ignore my original suggestion, get externals for your boys and think about internals later if at all.

 

Think about it, why would a 11 year old scout want an internal over an external, or even care? Why? Because so and so climbed Everest with one of course. See, is says so in the full page, full color ad with the dramatic photo in my favorite outdoors magazine. Our kids want what is marketed to them.

 

Scamp, I'm sorry but I have no knowledge of good instructional backpacking videos, I'm a book guy. But you might want to check out the PBS Trailside series. They do cover some great trips and are very entertaining. (At least for me.) Also the best instructional backpacking book out now is the Trailside series book on backpacking written by Karen Berger.

[eisely]

Might as well keep this string going a little longer.

 

Responding to one of Mike Long's points:

 

As I think about it, I would tend to agree with Mike's recommendation to avoid internal frames for younger scouts. If one of the real advantages of internal frame packs is safety and balance in rugged going, who in their right mind is going to take new scouts into such environments early in their scouting careers?

 

Concerning training, I recently went through a weekend of training offered by our council called "Backpack Awareness Training." Unfortunately I had the flu the weekend of the outdoor portion. This is probably the best training session I ever experienced as an adult scouter. The syllabus was developed and published under the auspices of the Western Region of the BSA, so I don't know if it is truly available in other parts of the country. There were no video tapes. Our council is now opening this to youth fifteen years or older, in the hope that they will become more effective trainers in their units.

 

One final item. I was browsing the official BSA 2001 catalogue for a different reason last night, and was pleased to notice that one can now order smaller size waistbands for backpacks through that catalogue.