Appropriate Headgear for a Cubmaster?

[Bob White]

Which program would that be FOG the $2 program or the $12 program? Rather than accept your guess at what the cost of hats are lets look at a 2003 catalog. I have in front of me the current catalog for one of the major manufacturers in the custom apparel industry.

 

Here is a promotional cap (that means cheap), it is made in the USA by Union labor. It is polyester foam front, mesh back, plastic adjustable strap, (sound familiar). The bulk rate wholesale cost, unembroidered, is $5. Embroidery normally runs about $3 but lets say its $2. Thats a $7 wholesale which a retailer would normally mark-up to $12 to $14. But that would not account for the profit that the scout shop gets, which I believe is 10%. So we now have a hat that would normally sell to the end-user at $13.20 to $15.40.

 

What does a Wolf Cub hat sell for? $11.50, No doubt another clever marketing ploy.

 

So I ask you what would be the marketing ploy of the BSA to have an overpriced, unpopular, overstocked, optional uniform item?

 

You speak with great conviction FOG, but in this instance very little substance.

 

Bob White

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fat Old Guy]

"Which program would that be FOG the $2 program or the $12 program?"

 

You make no sense.

 

"Rather than accept your guess at what the cost of hats are lets look at a 2003 catalog. I have in front of me the current catalog for one of the major manufacturers in the custom apparel industry."

 

I just called my local supplier, I can get 12 (minimum order) wool/poly fitted (do you know what that means?) caps with embroidery for $11.56 (plus tax) each. Sounds like you're being ripped off by the "major manufacturer" but I guess he has to pay for all of those catalogs that he mails out.

 

 

[Bob White]

Now call him FOG and tell him it must be made in the USA by Union laborers (with the union label).

 

And then be sure to explain the marketing scheme you have outlined. How would the BSA benefit from offering an overpriced, unpopular low quality, non-essential product?

 

You keep avoiding that question.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Twocubdad]

Given the quantities involved, I sure hope that the Supply Division is working directly through manufacturers on most items and not paying that wholesale markup.

 

I just bought three dozen very nice hats for our day camp at $8.50 each. Cotton twill, embroidery on the front and back, 6-color I believe. The unit cost included art and set-up charges. I'd guess a similar logo hat at a Wal-Mart would sell in the $15-20 range. Now if I cut the quality of the hat, reduce the embroidery to three colors in one location and let a contract directly with a manufacturer for 100,000 hats, I'm guessing we can come substantially off the $8.50 price.

 

Regardless, I don't think the $11.50 price of the Cub hats is unreasonable for a decent hat. But the current hats are of remarkably poor quality. Last year, mid-way through his Bear year, we had to buy my older son a new hat because the old one just flat-out fell apart. I don't know that I've ever had a hat of any kind fall apart before it became too gross and dirty to wear. And I'm a hat guy, I usually wear a hat and go through quite a few of them.

 

 

[Bob White]

You are right twocubdad it is not an unreasonable price. Just for the record the number of colors are irrelevant in the cost of embroidery. It's the number of stitches that determine the cost.

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

Bob, I see that you don't live by the Scout law. It isn't courteous to call someone by a nickname unless they tell you that you may. I never said that you could call me "FOG." You may address me as Fat Old Guy.

 

That being said, you like to avoid the issue. Twocubdad said,". . . I don't think the $11.50 price of the Cub hats is unreasonable for a decent hat. But the current hats are of remarkably poor quality." Notice that he said the current hats are of poor quality. That means that he doesn't think that they are worth $11.50.

 

As for union made. I haven't been a supporter of unions since I belonged to a union and saw the lengths that they go through to obstruct progress. Hondas are made in Ohio by non-union workers and they are far better than any Chevy. I want quality and price, I don't care about unions.

 

All the uniform items are crappy and non-essential but nearly everyone buys them. At district events most of the Cubs are wearing caps (my SWAG would be 90-95%) that's quite a few bucks in the pocket of BSA.

 

I can get US made work pants and work shirts for $20 each. Why does BSA charge nearly $40 for each part? Those shirts certainly aren't Pima cotton with single needle tailoring. They lack any of the refinements that a halfway decent dress shirt would have. No yoke, no gauntlet buttons.

 

BTW Twocubdad, you should take the cap that fell apart back to the Scout Shop. They are supposed to be guaranteed for life.

[Bob White]

Sory Fat Old Guy I was trying to be friendly.

 

Now you acan be helpful and explain this marketing ploy you keep avoiding.

 

Twocubdad, Fat Old Guy is correct unlike his $12 imported hat, your BSA hat is probably covered by the lifetime warranty.

 

Bob White (my friends call me Bob, but Fat Old Guy you can call me Bob White)

[dsteele]

I'm glad I'm not a buyer from natinoal supply (actually, I haven't screwed up badly enough for that . . . yet.)

 

If they offer Scout hats and sell them cheaply, they get busted over the chops for a lack of quality. If they buy quality caps and charge a premium, they get busted over the chops for charging too much.

 

Buy foriegn and the union workers crush them. Buy domestic and they get kicked for price.

 

Buy nothing and they're depriving the kids of another way of displaying their rank.

 

I'm going to stay out of that argument. I don't have a vote in which items are uniform and which are not.

 

However, I can tell you, from years of pouring over scout shop invoices and profit margins, that the BSA doesn't make much money (and when you factor in the manpower of running a Scout Shop, none at all) on the uniform pieces-parts. Folding cups, toothbrushes, pocket knives, etc., yes, there's money there. But for the necessary program stuff like uniforms and books . . . it's the best quality at break-even prices.

 

DS

[Fat Old Guy]

When it comes to avoiding issues, I don't hold a candle to you Bob White. Not only did you alter twocubdad's statements, you also ignored his statement that he got nice caps for about half of what you think that a crappy cap would cost. You really do need to find a new supplier.

 

As for the clever marketing ploy, let's look at the numbers. There's nearly a million Cub Scouts out there, not including Webelos. In olden days, if 50% of them bought a cap at the beginning of their Wolf year, that would have been rougly $5 million in revenue for BSA and they wouldn't need to spend another penny on a cap for two years. Now if that same 50% buys a cap at the beginning of their Wolf year that's $5 million for BSA. The next year, those boys need a new cap but not all of them buy one but let's guess that 50% of the original 50% do, so BSA gets another $2.5 million. Even if production and distribution costs eat up 50% of the revenue that's still $1.25 million per year that they wouldn't have in the old program. Now my figures are intentionally conservative but as I said before I've observed roughly 90% compliance with cap wearing so BSA is actually pocketing much more. Ka-ching!

 

One last observation -- according to you American and union made justifies a high price for a crappy product. Interesting economic theory.

 

I saw someting a couple years ago at the Scout Shop that pertains to this discussion. A fellow came in to replace his son's Boy Scout cap because it was brand new and the button on top had fallen off. He tested the button on the replacement cap and it popped right off. He went through all the caps on the shelf, about 20, before he found one that stayed together. That's American made quality and made by union workers to boot.

[Fat Old Guy]

"However, I can tell you, from years of pouring over scout shop invoices and profit margins, that the BSA doesn't make much money"

 

That's at the Council level. Have you seen the books for the Supply Division? It isn't too difficult for Supply to sell to the Scout Shops at inflated wholesale prices.

[fotoscout]

All I can say is that you guys are not helping me find an excuse to wear my campaign hat!

[Fat Old Guy]

Wear the campaign hat, it is a legal piece of the uniform. Just don't wear it perched on the back of your head, wear it square. :-)

 

[Twocubdad]

Wear the hat. With the band, strap and pin, you've spent close to $150 bucks on it. Wear the hat.

[caddmommy]

I was once told, that the only division in scouting that makes money, is the merchandizing division. After the headache I just got reading this tread about hats, I beleive it more then I ever did before.

 

I for one believe in Pack hats. Why you must buy a new hat each year is beyond me.

[Fat Old Guy]

Pack Hats? Oh, oh, you may invoke the wrath of the by-the-book types as I believe that Cub Scouts may not create their own headgear. :-)