Marty_Doyle Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I am attending Wood Badge in August/September. As preparation, I have been sent two packages of materials to read, review and fill out/return. In a number of different places, the material stresses the need for correct uniforms by all attendees. I am instructed to wear the appropriate baseball cap type of headgear for my current position in Scouting. As of June 1, I am Cubmaster. So what is the correct headgear? The Insignia Guide and Male Leader Inspection Sheet identify the blue baseball cap, with yellow front panels and Cub Scout emblem in front as correct. But this particular hat is no longer sold, ever since the Cub Scouts moved to specific hats for Tigers, Wolves, Bears and Webelos Scouts. My local council shop suggested the expedition or campaign hats, but the Wood Badge material states baseball cap. I have forwarded this same question to the director of the course. I'm checking Ebay for old hats, but most are "Boy" sized. Any ideas? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoscout Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Hi Marty, I had a similar situation. In the end I ended up wearing the hat for my den at the time. The WB staff had no problem with that! Sometime later the manager of our Scout Shop offered to get me the correct hat; he said that he could get them. I havent seen the hat yet, but it might be worth the phone call to your local scout shop. I am curious to see what response comes up here about the campaign hat. I own a very nice one that dates back to the 50s. Id love to wear it but I wont because my understanding is that it is inappropriate for a Cub Leader. Enjoy the experience!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_Doyle Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 My question stumped the course director, too. His answer? Buy the course hat at their trading post.(I feel like I just got off a ride at Disneyland....) I'll contact the larger national Scout Shop in Manhattan, per your suggestion, fotoscout. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 The hat you describe is still sold Marty. It is the Wolf hat and comes in an adult size. it has a red wolf badge on a yellow crown, with a blue brim. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoscout Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I dont want to speak for Marty but it thing the hat he is referring to is the generic CS hat. The badge was Blue and Gold, and the design is slightly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Bob White, is right. Just for fun I went to the Scout Stuff Site, and was unable to find a Cubmaster Cap. I know that there is such an animal, I have one some place thay I bought when I attended the "Old" Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge. I have been informed by the powers that be at the Wood Badge Course Directors Conference, that the Campaign Hat,is not was not and never will be the head gear for Cubscouters. As the proud owner of two of these hats, I can attest that they are a pain. You have to keep them dry. So you spend $5.50 on a cover. Then you have a wooden thing to keep them from bending, I can't remember what that cost. Then everywhere you go, you have to be on the lookout for someplace to put the darn thing. On the "Old" Boy Scout Wood Badge course, as a staffer I would drop hints to the patrols, so that they would make a hat rack. The new course has all of the programs, and while there is a cap for Cubscouters and Boy Scouters, I don't think that there is one for Crew Leaders. As the course director for an upcoming course, I put a cap in the budget, so everyone will get the same cap. As you might be able to tell, I don't like hats, caps of any sort. What I think is really strange is how some of the boys, who are never without a cap, moan and groan when they have to wear a Scout cap. As to what hat or cap to wear "In the real world" I don't think anyone is going to say a word if you are wearing the wrong hat. My DE, (female!!)tells me that she thinks men wearing the campaign hat, look sexy!! Maybe I will start wearing mine ? On second thoughts - NO -it wouldn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Eamonn, can you please provide us with a reference for the rule regarding Cub Scouters being prohibited from wearing the campaign hat? I find very little in the Insignia Guide regarding headgear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_Doyle Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 It is not too often that any of us get to type this. Sorry, Eamonn and Bob White, but you are somnewhat incorrect. Fotoscout is more correct. The hat Bob White describes is the Wolf hat. When the Scouts in our pack advance, we give them their new hats for their rank. The hat with the Wolf badge is specific for Wolves, as the hat for Tigers has the Tiger badge, Bears has the Bear badge, etc. The generic Cub Scout hat, which is referenced on the Adult Leader Uniform Inspection Sheet, has a blue and gold insignia with wide stitching, similar to the emblem on the red and green Boy Scout baseball hat.(Twocubdad - that is also the only place where, by exception and extrapolation, one can infer that the campaign hat is unauthorized for Cub Scout leaders, since it is specifically listed as an option for Boyt Scout leaders, and not CS leaders.) And is not readily available. I can look at my 9 year old's old hat, which we got before the last uniform change, and it is the "correct" one. I'll probably buy the Wood Badge course hat and avoid spending any more thought on this. Even though I have heard that some instructors at Wood Badge can be sticklers for correct uniforming, it doesn't appear to be so in this case, so it is not as big a deal as I thought. It would be nice to know what is the right hat, since I am a "role model" for getting the boys to wear the uniform correctly...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Looking at the Female Leader Uniform Inspection Sheet (ISBN 0-8395-4281-X. #34281A 1999 Printing) And the Male Leader Uniform Inspection Sheet (#34284. 2001 Printing) Female Cap (Optional) Leaders wear the same visored cap as the youth that they serve - blue and gold for Cub Scouting. Blue and light blue for Webelos Scouting. Olive and red for Boy Scouting, and brown and blaze for Varsity Scouting. Campaign hat may be worn at troop option by Boy Scout Leaders. Male Headgear. Boy Scout leaders wear the olive and red visor cap, or the campaign hat. Cub Scout leaders wear the blue and gold visor cap. Webelos leaders wear the blue Webelos visor cap. Varsity Scout Leaders wear the blaze visor cap. Hey I copied it word for word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoscout Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Eamonn, There are now two hats for CS, a Wolf hat and a Bear hat. Marty is the CM. The question is which hat does he wear? The Wolf hat says Wolf on it and the Bear hat says Bear on it. Then of course there is the Webelos hat and the Tiger hat. So many hats and not enough heads to wear them on. Neither is really appropriate for the CM. Since I really dont like the powder blue on the Bear hat, I vote for anything other than the Bear hat. Actually, Im hoping that someone will find an allowance for me to wear my Campaign Hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_Doyle Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 The problem is that the Uniform Inspoections sheets are out of date - Cub Scouting no longer uses the hats referenced on the sheet - there is a blue and orange Tiger hat, blue and yellow Wolf hat, blue and "light blue" Bear hat, and a green and plaid Webelos hat. I would have preferred the Webelos hat, since sartorially speaking, it matches the tan and olive leader uniform best. I copuld always pull out my yellow and blue beanie from 1966....but shouldn't mix and match with the 2003 uniform. For some of the other side benefits that Eamonn mentioned, I would like the campaign hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Before we start the serious hair splitting, is it not a basic principle that all adult leader uniforms are essentially the same? Isn't the primary difference supposed to be the color of shoulder tabs? Aren't hats and neckerchiefs supposed to be a personal choice? It's an option whether you wear them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Before we start the serious hair splitting, is it not a basic principle that all adult leader uniforms are essentially the same? No. The basic shirt is the same in the Boy Scout and Cub Scout program but not in Venturing and not if you are a female cub leader in a yellow blouse. Everything else is dependent on the program you serve, the level you serve at, and your position of responsibility. Aren't hats and neckerchiefs supposed to be a personal choice? Not in Cub Scouts. See the Insignia Guide for more information. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 The information in the IG regarding headgear is very vague and doesn't mention any of the Cub Scout hats. It deals primarily with when and how to wear hats. The section on neckerchief says the Cub Scout leaders MAY wear the blue and gold leaders' neckerchief. In fairness, the word "may" is omitted from the line which says that Webelos leaders wear a neckerchief similar to the Webelos Scouts. However, page 9 includes the bolo tie as an option for Cub Scouters, so it only makes sense that the Webelos leader neckerchief is optional too. Interestingly, I don't find the yellow female Cub Scouter blouse mentioned anywhere in the IG (please correct me if I'm wrong), but I believe the women Cub Scouters have the option of wearing that or the tan/olive uniform. I see nothing in the IG which creates a separate Cub leader uniform. Honestly, there is almost nothing in the Cub section regarding adult uniforming, save what I have quoted above and two other sections on position patches and leader recognition. So as I said before, EXCEPT FOR PERSONAL OPTIONS, aren't all adult uniforms basically the same? If you and I show up in identical uniforms -- except for your red shoulder tabs Scoutmaster position patch and my blue tabs and Cub Committee Chairman patch, no hats, no neckerchiefs -- are we not both properly uniformed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Yes, if we both show up in our respective uniforms we are both properly uniformed, but that does not make our uniforms the same. A Female leader in the Yellow blouse is not in the same basic uniform as a male cub leader in the the field uniform yet both are correctly uniformed. A Scoutmaster in the Boy Scout activity uniform is correctly dressed as a scout leader but does not look anything like a cubmaster in the correct uniform. Yes, in Cub Scouts you have the option as to whether or not you wear a neckerchief, bolo or no neckwear, but you do not have the open option of which neckerchief you can wear like you do in Boy Scouts. The Cubmaster now wears the Wolf Cub hat if they choose to wear a hat. There is a Cub Leader neckerchief as well that is worn by the Cubmaster if they wear a neckerchief, just as there is a specific Tiger Cub Leader neckerchief. The den leaders wear the neckerchief or hat of the den they serve or the Cub Leader neckerchief. Boy Scouts and Boy Scout leaders have a wider variety of hats and can wear any neckerchief except those of the Cub Scout program. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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