New Uniform Ideas

[captainron14]

LauraT7

My wife thanks you for the great tip on the sash!

 

As for the general thread,

Despite what some people have said, Cost is part of the problem. I have lived in areas where there were no uniform banks. And the units and scouts for that matter had a hard enough time raising money to fund events and awards.

I look at the "Scout Catalog" sent out every year and wonder..."Non-Profit"? There is so much high priced stuff there to choke a horse!

I wonder why National cannot have more affordable "Basic items"? Espically since most Scout shops are run by National now, why not have prices on the "Basic" items on a sliding scale, related to family income?

They could increase the cost of the "Crystal Bowls" or the other "flashy stuff" to cover the cost.

I think some people have lost track of what this program is all about, the Boys!

I realize that cost is is only part of the problem. However, do not blow it off by saying, "There are always uniform banks, scolarships, parttime jobs, etc.". or "parents can buy $80 soccer uniform but not a $30 Scout shirt". That is another part of the problem. If you have 3 kids, you may have a Cub, a Girl Scout, and a Boy Scout. Also, 3 or more different sports uniforms and fees, as well as School Clothes.

So, there are other reasons for not being in "Full Uniform" than example.

[RuddBaron]

A sliding price scale? Would you have to bring in tax papers? But then how is it fair to say to someone that they can afford it, so they have to pay a higher price for uniforms, effectively subsidizing everyone who pays the lower price (the revenue has to come from somewhere)? The prices are a bit high. Perhaps they could be lowered for EVERYONE. $70 for a campaign hat? That's a real deterrant to boys choosing the traditional Scout hat as a uniform hat. The shirt price deters Scouts from having both a short sleeve and a long sleeve shirt. The list goes on. So, cut costs, perhaps in part by reducing executive salaries, some of which can be quite high. However, it is done, either costs have to be lowered or less monetary surplus must be accepted in order for the price to be lowered.

 

Of course, National has gotten around this by making the uniform not "required" as such. If it was required, then boys who could not afford the price would leave. The reduction in numbers places economic pressure on national to lower prices of uniforms, thereby accepting lower surplus to pay salaries. Economics in action....

[dsteele]

Cutting executive salaries?

 

Are any of us wealthy? Not on BSA pay, I can tell you that much.

 

The expense of the uniforms has nothing to do with the salaries of the professional staff of the Boy Scouts of America. In fact, there is little mark-up on the price of the uniforms. The BSA insists that the uniforms be made in the United States of America and by union labor. They would be less expensive if made in a third-world country by folk who don't earn nearly the amount per hour that American Labor/Union workers earn . . .

 

Which is, by the way, more money than most professional scouters earn per hour. I don't begrudge union labor, please don't begrudge your professional scouters.

 

DS

[RuddBaron]

Perhaps you need to read my post in the professional Scouter topic you started to get me opinion of Scouting professionals. I was NOT referring to the Council and District executives. I was referring to the excessively high salaries I see NATIONAL execs getting. A list of non-profit corp CEO salaries showed the Chief Scout Executive making over $300K. Is this incorrect?

 

I am aware of the Union problem as well. But, if you want to lower price, you have to accept less surplus and/or cut costs. If you insist on it being made in the USA, which is fine by me, then the reduction in cost has to come from somewhere. If there isn't much markup, yet BSA wants to reduce uniform price, then it will have to subsidize. One way would be to reduce NATIONAL spending and apply the money towards uniforms. Otherwise, the only option is for people to accept the prices as they are and find ways to purchase them. *I* personally have no problem purchasing the uniform. But, as I have been reading, many people do.

[le Voyageur]

 

Sounds like it time for a little rebellion in the ranks, hey!

 

May I suggest that since recharting will becoming up soon, that all units across the US of A place their funds in escrow, or saving accounts until National gets the message to lower uniform costs to something more reasonable...now, who's got the Gadsen flag????

[Fat Old Guy]

"Are any of us wealthy? Not on BSA pay, I can tell you that much. "

 

Maybe not the DEs but the Scout Executives aren't starving. I found the tax return for National Capital Area Council on the internet and the Scout Exec there is making nearly $300,000 and has a $70,000 expense account.

 

Oddly, the Assistant SE barely gets a third of what the big boss gets.

 

I was flabergasted when I found out how little DEs are paid. You can actually make more as an assistant manager at a McDonald's. No wonder we go through DEs on a regular basis.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"The shirt price deters Scouts from having both a short sleeve and a long sleeve shirt."

 

No, it is just a matter of priorities. Most of the families in my troop are well into the upper-middle-class income range. These folks don't blink at spending $40,000 for an overgrown station wagon with DVD player. These people don't think twice about going on a cruise every year during spring break. These people have separate phone lines for each member of the family plus a cell phone for each person as well. However, they claim that a $25 Scout shirt is too expensive and that they can't justify paying for the pants as well.

 

Now, let's take a trip to one of the poverty striken inner city neighborhoods. What's that kid wearing? $150 basketball shoes. Is he playing basketball in them, no way. What else is he wearing? A $50 NBA replica shirt.

 

For both of these groups, it is a matter of priorities.

 

We do have a family in my troop that "poor" doesn't begin to describe them. However, they don't exhibit the hipocracy of claiming to not be able to afford Scout stuff and then driving off in a Jaguar. For these people, I've outfitted both sons with what I've found at yard sales.

 

These people too, it is a matter of priorities. If they bought Scout shirts, they might not eat for a couple days.

 

 

[RuddBaron]

Ok, FOG. I'd believe that a Scout Exec has a high salary, esepcially since a Council is sort of a corporate division of BSA. But, I've not seen numbers. I've also a Field Director who wore nice suits with French cuffs. Perhaps he just liked to dress well (a laudable trend), but that type of dress is not generally seen among those with lower-paying jobs.

 

As for the shirts, you're right about priorities. In the warmer climates, kids can just wear a longsleeved t-shirt or the like under their SS shirt during the relatively short cold season. So, it's not THAT big a deal there, though the more serious Scouters often buy the LS shirt for colder weather and, more importantly, more formal functions like Courts of Honor.

 

To me, though, if you can pay $40K for a Jag and you're going to do Scouting, you bloody well ought to be in full uniform. Both shirts would be nice, but aren't essential.

 

I see this also in the local Scottish community. A discussion on another topic showed the cost of Scottish kiltwear. At many formal events that call for the whole shamola, which includes the kilt, TARTAN hose, and a formal jacket and is easily over $1000, some show up in a t-shirt with their kilts...despite the fact that they have money...more than enough to buy the outfit. Not only is it rude to the host, it says to the world that they just don't care.

 

Really...why participate in something if you're not going to do it right to the best of your ability?

[RuddBaron]

And while we're at it...what on earth happened to KNEE SOCKS???????? I know they aren't "cool" with the current generation of Scouts, but they not only are very "scout-like" in appearance, they are EXTREMELY functional by protecting the legs.

 

I went to a troop at the SM's request to discuss the OA opportunities with them last week. I was in knee socks...and I don't think any of the boys had seen them before. As I pointed out, those are REAL Scout socks.

[dan]

I just purchased 4 pair of knee scouts 2 months ago? Are you saying they are no longer avaiable? The councils stores here carry them, but they do run out quite a bit.

[RuddBaron]

No, I'm asking why their use seems to be waning. Lately I have seen nothing but the really short socks. Given the choice, the kids seem to prefer the shorter ones, as the knee socks are no doubt seen as "geeky" or at least out of style.

 

For that matter, BSA in general seems to be considered geeky by a good number of kids. This is a bit off the topic of new uniforms, but perhaps someone can clue me in as to why?

[scoutldr]

National Capital Area Council is another that I have visited recently. They have a beautiful facility on Wisconsin Ave in Bethesda, MD, a block from the Naval Hospital and the National Institutes of Health. It's called the "Marriott Scout Center"...for obvious reasons. There is a huge portrait of THE Mr. Marriott in the lobby (also a leader in the LDS church, FWIW). Not sure if $300 grand is out of line or not, but my modest 3 BR ranch house of 1300 SF would cost me about $450,000 in that neighborhood. I have passed up promotions more than once to move to the DC area just because of the crazy cost of living there (not to mention the traffic).

[RuddBaron]

Marriott alone could pay the Scout Exec a $300K salary.

[Fat Old Guy]

"some show up in a t-shirt with their kilts."

 

Some people have no idea of the social graces.

 

A club that I belong to has a semi-formal end of year party. Women wear heels and dresses and most men wear suits with a few in blazers. However, one guy shows up in a t-shirt and jeans.

 

In recent years, nearly every wedding that I go to has someone showing up in sweatpants.

 

What can you do?

[RuddBaron]

One of my favorite examples is what I see at the theatre. A woman is in an elegant formal evening gown, and her date is in blue jeans and a t-shirt. Hmmm....

 

Actually, I would say a lot of the lack of sufficiently proper uniforming is also due to the natural tendency of boys that age to challenge conformity and authority. There's a difference between a Patton-esque alteration to the uniform and a complete flauting of convention.