EAGLE PALMS

[SBL56]

How do you wear the eagle palms on your uniform? We have looked in the scout book but it doesn't say anything about palms

 

thanks

shirley

[shemgren]

The Insignia Guide, 2002-2004, page 22: "Eagle Palm, ...worn on the Eagle Award ribbon or the Eagle square knot. You may wear only the proper combination of Palms for the number of merit badges you have earn beyound Eagle. The Bronze Palm represents five merit badges; Gold, 10; and Silver, 15. For example, if you earn 10 merit badges and two Palms, you would wear only the Gold Palm. If you earn 20 merit badges and four Palms, you would wear a Silver and a Bronze Palm."

 

Wear you Palms with pride! I wear my Bronze Palm on my Eagle Award (medal) for formal occassions such as Courts of Honor, Eagle Courts of Honor, Blue and Gold Banquets, District and Council Banquets, etc.

 

Scott

Eagle, with Bronze Palm, 1980.

[packsaddle]

shemgren, Are adults allowed to wear their Eagle medal? I thought I was only allowed to wear the knot. Does this apply to the God and Country award as well?

[Twocubdad]

PackSaddle -- I thought the same thing until I re-read the Insignia Guide. On page 45, it says that up to five medals may be worn just above the left pocket. Now it doesn't specifically say "adults may wear..." but this is the section of the guide relating to adult uniforms. The picture at the top of the page shows an Eagle and God and Country medal located on a pocket with square knots above. (I always thought it was a no no to wear the knot and medal representing the same award -- although from a practical standpoint, few people have a formal uniform shirt without the knots that they wear the medals with, and a second utility shirt with the knots.)

 

More definitive is page 22 "Boys Scout Advancement" which says of the Eagle Medal, "Adults wear (the Eagle medal) only formal Eagle occasions," such as an Eagle Court of Honor.

 

This is news to me. Maybe this should go on the thread about BSA policy myths.

 

Makes me wish all my medals weren't sealed up in a frame.

 

 

[shemgren]

The square knots that represent a medal are provided for the convenience of the wearer. Generally, when a cloth badge is worn, the metal is not worn(Insignia Guide, page 5). The Insignia Guide must be taken as a whole, and several places it states that adults may wear medals for formal occassions(page 22,43).

 

In addition, Scouts may wear the Religious emblem, Order of the Arrow Distinguished Service Award, Quartermaster Award, Hornaday Award, Honor Medal, Heroism Award and Medal of Merit square knots.

 

District Award of Merit, Arrow of Light Award, Professional Training Award, Distingished Commissioner are examples of awards with no medal to accompany them.

 

It seems rather silly to have another uniform without the knots for the medals that you are wearing to meet the letter of the "guide", since is such grey areas, the spirit of the rule is more important than the letter on the rule. That spirit of the rule is to keep the uniform normally uncluttered in appearence.

 

If I worn all the medals I am authorized to wear, I would exceed the 5 medal rule, since I have earned 7, 4 pin on and 3 neck medals.

 

My experience is that the Scouts themselves are impressed by an adult with the medals vs. just the square knots. Therefore, I do wear selected ones of my medals for formal occassions. Normally I only wear my Eagle Scout award.

[packsaddle]

Ok folks, that helps a lot...I think. I'll take a spin at this but I just know I'm going to feel like some Russian general. Thanks though for the insight.

[DDHII]

It's interesting that the Insignia guides states that only 5 medals can be pinned on the left breast pocket. If you look at the width of the medals, only 3 can fit on the pocket without them going beyond the width of the pocket. As an Eagle Scout, Venturing Silver Award, Venturing Ranger, Silver Hornaday, and God and Life award earner (Training Award too, but it's such a tiny medal compared to the others), it's hard to choose which ones to put on my unitform. Medals become more of a pain to put on because they all start to "clink" everytime I walk around, especially when I wear those neck medals too.

 

However, adults can wear any medal they have earned as a Scout, and it is encouraged for adults to do so. It sets as a good example for Scouts to see.

 

For the bronze, gold, and silver palms, they can be worn on the Eagle Square knot or on the medal when it's worn.

 

Dale

[shemgren]

You can purchase replacement medals from a Scout Shop. They will require some proof for Eagle since it is a rank. Medals from P.R.A.Y. are irreplaceable since they won't sell medals without an application for the award.

[yarrow]

HOW MANY EAGLE PALMS?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is the maximum number of possible Eagle Palms?

Here's a fun exercise.

Background information. There are a total of 119 merit badges currently offered by BSA. Each Eagle Palm requires five merit badges, three months active time, Scout Spirit requirement, a Scoutmaster conference, and successful completion of a BOR. Eagle Palms may be earned once a scout successfully completes his Eagle Board of Review.

Merit badges earned any time since becoming a boy scout may be used to meet this [Eagle Palms] requirement. (Boy Scout Requirements book; Eagle Palms requirements). There is no rule for how the applicant chooses which badges he selects for each palm; they do not have to be sequential (completion dates), but they must not be repeated.

To tally the Palms: First, count 21 merit badges required for Eagle Rank. Add five merit badges for the first (Bronze) palm (26 merit badges), five more for next (Gold) palm (31 merit badges), five more for first Silver Palm (36 merit badges). The palm sequence begins again so add five more merit badges for the second Bronze Palm (41 merit badges), 5 more for the second Gold Palm (46 merit badges), and five more for the second Silver Palm (51 merit badges). Repeat the sequence until you count out the maximum number of palms tallied from all merit badges which are offered in the Boy Scout program. If the current number of 119 is in place, this tally would be the award of Six Silver Palms, Six Gold Palms, and Seven Bronze palms for the total of 19 earned Eagle Palms.

How Palms are represented for wear on the uniform: "You may wear only the proper combination of palms for the number of merit badges you earned beyond the rank of Eagle. The Bronze represents five merit badges, the Gold 10 badges and the Silver 15 badges." This information is given in the Boy Scout handbook and the Boy Scout Requirements book (2000). For our Maximum Possible Palms example, you would place six Silver Palms and one Bronze Palm on the Eagle Medal to represent 96 merit badges earned (the Eagle Medal adds an additional 21 merit badges for the Eagle Award), this combination also represents 19 Eagle palms. There are three merit badges are left over which are not enough for a palm.

Time requirements: Okay, even if you earned all 119 merit badges, there is still the time requirement. For 19 palms, the absolute minimum of 57 months (4 yrs. 9 months) is required. Palms may be earned until a scout reaches 18, thus a scout must earn his Eagle rank while no older than 13 yrs. 3 months less 1 day to achieve this highest possible number of palms. All other conditions to play out this scenario have to be perfect (i.e. Scoutmaster conference and BOR both right on the 3-month anniversary day as well as the the active time and scout spirit requirements, and of course earn the merit badges.)

This is a fun problem, not one which involves opinion on age for attaining the Eagle rank, so let's not go there. It also does not take into account the reality of scheduling Scoutmaster Conferences nor BOR's which usually will not be exactly on the anniversary date of the previous palm.

Math

119 merit badges - 21 needed for Eagle = 98 merit badges left for palms tally.

98 divided by 5 merit badges per palm = 19 palms plus 3 merit badges left over.

19 palms divided by 3 types palms = 6 per each type plus one left over for, making it Six Silver, 6 Gold, and 7 Bronze. 19 palms x 3 month requirement for each = 57 months, or 4 years 9 months.

18 yr. (less one day) - 4 yrs. 9 months = 13 yrs., 3 months less 1 day.

How Eagle Palms are worn: Eagle Palms are worn on the Eagle Medal. (The Eagle Medal represents 21 badges.) The Bronze Palm represents one palm (5 badges). The Gold Palm represents two palms (10 badges), so you remove the Bronze one and replace it with the Gold. Silver represents three palms (15 badges), so you remove the Gold Palm and replace it with the Silver Palm. As each additional palm is earned, leave the Silver Palm in place and repeat the above sequence. This means that when Silver palms are already pinned on the medal, the Bronze Palm adds one to that already represented by each Silver Palm, and a Gold Palm adds two.

For the case of our 19 palms (representing 95 merit badges, setting aside the 21 represented by the Eagle Medal), you would do the math and figure 19 palms divided by 3 which equals 6 silver palms with one palm left over (one palm = bronze), so you would pin on six Silver Palms (representing 18 eagle palms) and a Bronze Palm (that's the extra 1 palm) to the Eagle Medal.

Now think about this one: a Bronze Palm and Gold Palm would never be worn together at the same time since 1 (Bronze) + 2 (Gold) equals 3, and three palms is represented by a Silver palm.

One additional note for the tally: We counted 116 merit badges (including the 21 for the Eagle award), and had three badges left over. If an additional two merit badges were introduced by BSA above the current 119 merit badges offered, and these two additional badges were earned for 121, it is possible that these five merit badges can be used for yet another palm. That additional palm is represented by a Gold palm worn with the six Silver Palms.

What has been accomplished in "real life?" Does anyone know what the record is and who it was who earned the highest number of palms? I think I remember seeing something in the Reader's Digest sometime in the late 80's, or maybe early 90's.

 

 

Submitted by Rosemary L. McCammond, Croatan Trails District

[dsteele]

Rosemary --

 

I just got up off the floor which is where I fell after you made me dizzy with your math.

 

Please don't do that to a Social Sciences major who made Eagle at 13 years old and only earned a single 5 badge bronze palm so that the son he would never have could grow up to outrank him.

 

My head hurts.

 

Hee-hee.

 

DS

[Bob White]

Keep in mind that you can earn all the merit badges and not earn all the palms. A scout can earn all the merit badges before he completes the required 3-month tenure sequences.

 

To my knowledge national does not track record number of Palms. I do remember a scout earning all the merit badges in the mid-80s.

 

But what would be the point of tracking palms Vs. Merit badges? Has a scout who earned the MBs at a slower rate and received more Palms accomplised more than a scout who earned more Mrit Badges faster and got fewer Palms?

 

I don't think the program would want to give greater attention to one than the other.

 

Bob White

[OldGreyEagle]

Check out the Thread titled "This stellar Boy Scout has legions of merits" in the Issues and Politics section. Its about a scout for earned all the merit badges BSA offers.

 

Wonder how many palms he will get?