Red Wool Jacket

[Fat Old Guy]

I was in a Woolrich outlet not long ago and I asked if they ever have the red Scout Jackets. They do get them but not very often. It didn't occur to me to ask what tag was in it. The jacket patch is $2 and you're good to go.

 

If a person has a choice between wearing a red wool jacket that doesn't have a BSA tag and a Wrangler denim jacket, what should they do?

[FScouter]

The universal emblem patch can be sewed on lots of things. I have one on my brag rag and another on my backpack. It can be sewed onto any piece of clothing, but that doesnt make the garment official. Why not get the real McCoy? For 30 bucks on eBay you can get a genuine BSA wool jac-shirt, with the patch already sewed on.

[Fat Old Guy]

What is the difference between a red jac-shirt made for BSA but sold by Woolrich and a red jac-shirt made by Woolrich and sold by BSA? Same item, just a different retail outlet.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

What is the difference between a red jac-shirt made for BSA but sold by Woolrich and a red jac-shirt made by Woolrich and sold by BSA? Same item, just a different retail outlet.

 

 

[cheffy]

Thank you FOG

That's my point exactly.

Kind of like do you wear a designer label or not.

[FScouter]

If you found a jac identical to the BSA jac with the tag cut or removed, go for it and wear it with pride. If you found a jac or any other uniform part that is almost-the-same in style, detailing, fabric, and color, you can wear that too. The wearer decides whether he wears BSA uniform or wears something similar to BSA uniform.

[FScouter]

bump

[SeattlePioneer]

For those who might be nitpicked over sewing patches on their red wool shirt, it sounds like the proper course of action would be to simply point out that your shirt is made by Woolrich and looks exactly like the official red jacket, but isn't. That way you are free to sew whatever you want on it since it isn't a part of the uniform.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[madkins007]

re: patch-covered shirt-jacs...

If I inherited a nice historic jacket, I'd wear it proudly as is but buy a second jacket for ceremonial wear. As a rule of thumb, I try a lot harder to be perfectly uniformed for ceremonies and more formal occassions. The rest of the time I'd wear my braggin' jacket.

 

re: Woolrich as a source...

I think I'd go with the 'if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck' theory here. As a bigger guy, I am frustrated by the lack of uniform parts that fit comfortably (and I can afford!) I found some good olive web belts in a uniform catalog and used those with an official buckle. I made my own red Activity shirt and 'quasi shirt-jac'. I'm still looking for a sharp looking red windbreaker to modify. My dad and almost all of his old Woodbadge staff bought their campaign hats at a local army/navy store and added the official hatband at well under 1/2 the cost of the BSA's. The presence of the official label just is not worth bankruptcy for me.

 

 

Question...

I have heard that part of the proceeds of the sale of the uniform or some parts thereof is used to help fund paid Scouter retirements or benefits. The wool jacket and campaign hats are often specified in the rumors. Does anyone know of there is any validity to this?

[John G]

As a member of the scouts during the mid 70's through early 80's I have a clear memory of the BSA Red Jacket.

 

The jacket in my day was worn as an accessory to the official uniform and was typically used to display ones patches from all of his camping / camporee / jamboree / scout camp experiences.It was a sign of experience and seniority as well as an opportunity for one to express his own "layout" in terms of the collected patches. Now these jackets fostered discussion and comraderie between members due to the fact that scouts typically saw patches where they had or had not been and could either reminisce,ask about, or give details about them. And Yes most of the time the red jackets were literally coverd with patches.

They were a real hit at camporees.

Still have mine and every patch on it is a cherished memory.

Oh and by the way, my seven year old son has already taken a strong interest in it. Looks like he's on his way to the BSA.

 

Regards

J. Garbarini Troop 1001 Port Washington NY 75 -81.

 

[SFmike]

My (then) 11 year old son was at his Court of Honor to receive his Star Rank when a Commissioner announced that he wanted to inspect the troop. This commissioner went up and down the ranks pointing out uniform errors to the Scoutmaster. These were mostly very minor such as an out of date Quality Unit Award patch and a boy wearing his three year pin without the colored plastic backing.

 

When he got to my son, he mentioned that my boy was wearing a Boy Scout Conservation Award patch where the International Scouting emblem belonged. My son replied that the Boy Scout Conservation Award included the international emblem and besides, unless the commissioner paid for the uniform, he had no right to say what was and wasn't wrong with it.

 

A year later, my son went to his Eagle Scout Board of Review and wore the same shirt with the same patch sewn in the same place. The commissioner was a member of the BOR and never mentioned this uniform gaffe.

 

The point is, the one who owns the uniform has the right to wear it as he sees fit. The "Uniform Police" have no official standing and no right to enforce uniform regulations.

[emb021]

It is unfortunate that you and your son don't seem to understand the concept of a uniform. Being the owner of it does NOT give one the right to wear it 'any way they see fit'. Uniforming means wearing it properly, with the appropriate insignia in the correct locations. This is why we have an Insigna Guide and Uniform Inspection Sheet (and commissionrs are usually expected to yearly do a uniform inspection). This has nothing to do with so-called "uniform police".

 

The World Conservation Award has a specific place on the uniform, and its NOT to be worn in place of the World Crest.

 

Your son also need to learn the Scout Law, specifically "Courteous" (not being a smart mouth to people) and "Obedient" (following the uniform rules). I hope he's not the kind of person who things the "rules don't apply to me".

 

Most improper uniforming I've found is do to either ignorance or misinformation. This is one of the few times I've heard of improper uniforming due to arrogance.

 

I hope that if you are a scout leader you're not teaching your scouts these sorts of poor behavior.

[SFmike]

emb021,

 

The arrogance, IMO, lied with the Commissioner, a stranger to the boys, who stepped in to "their" ceremony and started pointing out errors or perceived errors on their part. If he had any tact, he would have quietly pointed out any errors or uniform problems to the SM and let him make corrections at an appropriate time.

 

My son was not a smart___, but he did stand up for himself. He felt that the World Crest was a proper uniform adornment, but that the World Conservation Award also included the World Crest and conveyed a message beyond that of the World Crest. He wore the Venturing version of the World Conservation Award on his Green Venturing shirt as well.

 

Chris was an Eagle Scout with nine palms, he held the Explorer G.O.L.D. award, the Congressional Bronze, Silver and Gold Medals, the Hornady Medal. the BSA Honor Medal and the Venturing Silver and Ranger Medals. He was a Vigil Honor member of OA and his last award from BSA was the Spirit of the Eagle Award. He wasn't arrogant.

 

[Region 7 Voyageur]

SFmike,

 

I am sorry to hear that your son has passed away.

[emb021]

SFMike-

 

I will agree that the commissioner was wrong to butt in at a court of honor to conduct a uniform inspection. It IS one of the duties of the unit commissioner to run a unit uniform inspection, but it should be done at a unit meeting, ideally with some advanced warning to give the boys the chance to correct issues, etc. And his inspection should be done in the spirit of pointing out errors that many mistakenly make (missing backing on service stars, etc), then in nitpicking things that really don't matter (last year's quality unit patch).

 

However, you son was incorrect. Regardless of his 'logic', the Insignia Guide has been clear for YEARS that the World Conservation Award is worn on the right pocket. It is not and never has been a valid replacement for the World Crest. His reaction to being called on his inproper uniform was also incorrect.