Red Wool Jacket

[mk9750]

In another thread, someone hinted that the Red Wool Jacket is Official "Uniform", and therefore has ruled governing it's wear and use. Is this true? I had never heard anything like this before. I also have patches all over mine, and have no intention of taking them off.

 

It is true that it is "official BSA". But so are some of the flashlights, and tents, and pots, and 1000 other things in the catalog. I am not aware that I am not allowed to put a label on my "Official BSA" flashlight (OK, I don't really own one, but you get the point).

 

In the same thread, someone mentioned the old olive tie being worn with the fireld uniform. I am aware they stopped selling the tie, but does that mean it can no longer be worn with the uniform? If so, we've got some real probelems in our Troop. The boys voted that only Scouts can wear our Troop neckerchief, and as a group the adults all decided that formal occasions (C of Hs, parades) required a tie. Only one of us likes the bolo tie. Are we out of uniform at every Court of Honor we do?

 

Mark

[acco40]

Yes, there is an official red wool jacket, and if you have "patches all over it" it is in violation of the uniform guidelines. Is it a big deal? That is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I believe the adult leaders should strive to do everything "by the book." Otherwise, how do you explain to the youth what rules you feel are okay to break and what ones you feel are not?(This message has been edited by acco40)

[shemgren]

The olive tie is allowed to be worn with the uniform. So is the tan tie of the 1980's. This falls under the guideline of once it is uniform, it still is uniform, as long it is in serviceable condition. An older all green uniform can be worn as offical.

 

The patches allowed on the jacket are outlined an page 5 of the Insignia Guide, 2002-2004, No. 33066C.

[mk9750]

acco40,

 

I understand it is "official". But is it a uniform? If it is part of the uniform, than I can see that BSA would make rules governing its appearance. I just can't believe it is covered under uniform.

 

If it is, then is a BSA poncho part of the uniform, and therefore subject to guidelines? how about the flashlight example? The one in the catalog certainly is "official", but I highly doubt that its use or appearance is covered under uniform guidelines. I'm not trying to debate, because I really don't know. But I think if you are right, my examples show some of the silliness of the rules regarding these jackets.

 

Shemgren,

 

Thanks for the info on the ties. Once I read it, I remembered the exact same thing. At least that's a relief!

 

Mark

[acco40]

During training, we had a staff member show up in a red jacket and the students (adults) were asked what was wrong with his uniform. The answer was that placement of patches on the jacket. I can't specificly remember the guidelines but I believe one could have only a centered patch in the back (according to the staff). I don't recall ever seeing the issue covered in any BSA literature.

 

Just like adults who wear patrol patches (Old Goat, Rocking Chair, etc.), it is often done, not a big deal to many, AND a violation of the uniform guidelines. I'm not a memeber of the patch police but if asked point blank if it is correct, I give what I believe to be the proper answer.

 

 

[dsteele]

At some point in the last few years there was an interesting article on the Philmont Jacket in the Way it Was column of Scouting magazine. I haven't been able to find it, so I'll go on memory.

 

The wool jacket many of us have in our closets (or on our backs) began as a jacket sold at Philmont. There was a kind of evolution that involved a lot of scouters returning home with their jackets, especially with the Philmont Bull sewn over the shoulder.

 

That's what I remember from the article.

 

What I can tell you is that the insignia guide covers the red wool jacket and is specific on what can be worn where. I don't have one with me, but I don't believe it refers to the jacket as uniform wear, although I infer it to be a non-required part of the uniform.

 

I also don't have a BSA catalog in front of me, but I vaguely rember that it's pretty clear on what is uniform wear and what is merchandise.

 

I do remember that two things were important to me as a Scout -- proper uniforming (mostly for myself) and owning as much stuff as I possibly could with a Boy Scout logo on it.

 

But then again, I was a weird kid.

 

DS

[hops_scout]

The jacket is sold as merchandise, not uniform. I want as little as possible with the Boy Scout logo because most of it is over-priced and under made, but I want as much camping gear as possible.

[Bob White]

The Red Wool Jack-shirt is an official uniform piece regulated by the uniform policies of the BSA. To find out which uniform pieces are controled and what the regulations are, you need to ferference the BSA Uniform Guide for 2002-2204. The manual is available at your local concil service center.

 

Bob White

[scoutldr]

As I recall, the only items to be worn on the shirt are the universal BSA emblem on the left pocket (comes with it), the Philmont Bull on the left shoulder (the Jac-Shirt originated as a Philmont-only item), and a SINGLE back-patch such as OA or NESA. As with other BSA items, they've become outrageously expensive, making them out of reach of most youth.

[scoutldr]

On the issue of obsolete uniform parts, I think the intent is that COMPLETE uniforms are still acceptable. I don't think it's acceptable to mix and match parts from different eras. So, if you can assemble a complete uniform, including tie, from 1965, and it is still "serviceable", you can wear it. We have an old gent who still wears proudly his vintage uniform. Don't know how old it is, but he wears his 1937 Jamboree patch on it....and he earned it honestly...he was there!

[acco40]

scoutldr,

 

You are correct. One should not wear the 1937 shirt withthe 2003 pants. However, once correct, always correct with complete uniforms.

[Eamonn]

It is strange how these Threads seem to catch me right at the time that I'm dealing with the same or very near the same topic.

I for the most part, like to think that I comply with the BSA,uniform standards. I do have one shirt, with a knot on upside down, and be known to change into uniform at work and go to a scouting event not wearing scout socks.

This weekend in preperation for an upcoming Wood Badge Course,I was going over the uniform with the staff.

Staffing a Wood Badge is a fairly expensive activity. Not only do the staff have to pay their own way, they also incur a lot of out of pocket expenses.

For the most part going over the uniform was easy: Boy Scouters; Shirt,pants Choice of the webbing belt, or the leather belt (I'm asking that they wear the ax in log buckle.) and socks.

One weekend is in September, when hopefully it will be nice, so they /we can wear shorts, the other weekend is in October, when it might be nice or it might snow. I haven't set any rule on what pants they wear, long pants or shorts are fine with me, the same for the socks.

We are going to top this all off with a baseball cap that we are having made for course.

Cub Scouters, can wear the same as the Boy Scouters, or go for the yellow shirt, blue pants,

and blue scocks.

The Ventuer Crew Leader,is wearing the green shirt, and he tells me that there is uniform pants and socks, which was more then I knew. But he is happy to wear this.

All was going well till we got to the jacket. The Staff Guide and Admin. Handbook, does not specify a jacket.

Yes I know, we used to wear the red jacket and the campaign hats, but those days are gone.

Over half the staff have the red wool jacket, one or two have the red nylon jacket.

I really hate to ask these people to have to foot the extra expense of buying one, and at this time I'm unsure if the red jacket is a uniform jacket for Cub Scouters wearing the yellow and blue. And I don't know about my crew leader.

I will be reading up on this, but do welcome your thoughts and opinions.

Thanks.

Eamonn

[FScouter]

The red wool jac-shirt is commonly available on the eBay for $20-$30. There are at least 10 offered right now. Here's an opportunity for the rest of your staff to pick one up on the cheap. Uniformity amongst staff is important. It helps set the example.

[Eamonn]

FScouter,

I tend to agree with you.

However, I question, why this is not in any of the course guides ?

I was informed that the Campaign Hat was "taken out" due to the fact, that it was only a Boy Scout uniform item.

Also it is not possible to have "Uniformity" and stay within the rules.When you have three different uniforms.

Needless to say setting the example of wearing the correct uniform as stated in the uniform guide,Which Bob White refered too (And as yet, I have to read.) will be the path that we follow.

Many thanks for the e-Bay idea.

I do have to wonder, why are these people selling their jackets?

Is it a case of too much good camp food ?(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[Bob White]

I guess you have to ask the Big Picture question. Is the goal to model correct uniforming or be in identical garb. Since Woodbadge staff can be made of members from various programs just as the participants, I would think that correct uniforms were more important than identical uniforms. Since the jacket is an optional uniform piece I would not require it to be worn. BUT since it is a controlled uniform piece, I would require that anyone who wore it wear it correctly.

 

My 2 cents,

Bob White