Mish Mosh of Uniform Parts

[jbroganjr]

I am wondering your views on this.

Our troop policy on uniforms is to wear the full uniform on the way to outings (travel time too), etc. For summer camp, all scouts/scouters are to wear the troop neckerchief (we supply them, the are custom made, and sharp looking, paid from general troop funds).

This year, I have a new scout (older brother is ASPL, father is a asm and mother is on committee) and mother is a leader at camp. I am SM at camp. Policy is stated. This new scout shows up looking like he raided the philmont trading post (father went to a course there). When the spl did a uniform inspection, the kid failed. (philmont hat, kneckerchief etc. I counseled spl that only the kneckerchief would be a problem). Mom chirps right in and says short sleeved shirts don't need a neckerchief. Had to put on my SM hat and remind her what is troo policy. I should've sent them home to get the neckerchief, didn't think of that until 1/2 hr into the trip. Any thoughts on this?

I also gave the troop a quick SM minute, on the uniform showing that we are a brotherhood, a team and that it is your character that makes you stand out as an individual.

At camp, it was amusing to me to see this kid not have any answer to older scouts when asked about being selected for a philmont trip. Don't think the lesson was learned.

[Bob White]

jbroganjr,

Before I give my full answer I will need to know what your troop policy considers a full uniform.

 

 

Bob

 

[jbroganjr]

Troop uniform

starting with hats: 1st class and above are given a beret. Whether or not scout wears beret is up to scout, but a bsa hat is mandated.

Kneckerchief

Slide, (Knot is acceptable)

BSA Tan shirt

BSA belt

BSA pants/shorts

BSA socks.

As for the Hats, It has not been an issue if they are different.

OA sashes, where merited

MB Sash, where merited.

As for Summer Camp, the kneckerchief is mandated. All other times, a bolo is acceptable.

Why? For the mundane purpose of having a troop photo (hats are taken off for photo, so not an issue)

This is probably overboard, but has been a written troop policy for 5 years.

 

We maintain an experienced uniform dept and have used funds to buy uniforms for folks who can't budget those items.

We also have troop Tshirts

The uniform policy follows the BSA guidelines. SM, ASM, CC are all required to be in full uniform, as we set the example.

Now the policy is as follows. A bsa uniform is to be worn traveling to all outings, either indoor or outdoor, unless specifically changed by the PLC ahead of time (Like for clean ups, certain service projects where the uniform would be a hindrance).

[Yes, we are one of those "Good Looking Troops" which I do not think is a bad thing, considering my family is one that has had to use the experienced uniform route]

During the year, a "Class B" (where exactly did these misnomers come about from anyhow?) is worn to the first three meetings of the month. Uniform inspections on last meeting of the month.

Also, full uniform for a scoutmasters conference, bor etc.

Also Den Chiefs are to be in uniform.

All Flag/Religious ceremonies at district, town, council,camp events, unless there are special circumstances.

Patrols are encourage to come up with their own patrol T-shirts.

 

We have found that traveling in uniform does a couple of things. One, recognition by other scouts, scouters, former scouters. Easy to keep track off (either on a bus, plane etc. this troop will travel far for adventure). Uniform makes all the boys "equal" in status, no "cool" or outrageous clothing.

[Bob White]

jbroganjr,

 

OK, here is just my opinion. first I am glad you support the use of a complete uniform, and that you try to help make it possible for everyone to afford and own a complete uniform.

 

Here is where I think you are having trouble. Try being more open to a scout wearing a correct uniform rather than the the one ordered by a troop policy. The boy wearing the shirt, belt, pants or shorts, and socks and any neckerchief is in a correct uniform. There are lots of choices in hats and neckerchierfs that are currently available and in styles that boys enjoy wearing that forcing them to wear one particular one (especially outdated ones or ones chosen by other 5 years ago).

 

Getting scouts to dress alike in t-shirts, hats or neckerchiefs should be more a matter of espirit d'corps than mandate. Spirit will will generate team apparrel not the other way around.

 

Mom was part right by the way when she said that a neckerchief is not required with a short sleeve shirt. In fact a neckerchief is not required with any shirt. BSA uniform does not require any neck wear to be complete.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I am all for a troop uniform, I just think you are trying to achieve it with a heavy hand. Let the current scouts decide what the current hat and neckerchief should be, if any. They have as much right to choose their look as the scouts 5 years ago did (assuming it was the scouts who chose it ).

 

One last thing. i do not understand the comment "At camp, it was amusing to me to see this kid not have any answer to older scouts when asked about being selected for a philmont trip."

 

I have never heard of a scout being selected to go to Philmont. Philmont is there for all eligible scouts to attend by their choice. Only adults at the Philmont Training Center are there by invitation. Right?

 

Bob White

[netscouter]

I do not agree with bob white. A FULL uniform SHOULD ALWAYS be REQUIRED. Keep it up!!

 

 

[Bob White]

You misunderstood me netscouter. I never said do not wear a full uniform. I said that a correct uniform is equally as important. The scout he described was in a correct uniform. Perhaps, he was not in the troop mandated uniform, but then again that uniform was determined by a different group of scouts 5 years ago. If you want the scouts to dress alike they should have a say in what "alike" is.

 

It is the same in god management in an all adult setting. People want a chance to decide some things for themselselves. The BSA leaves some uniform parts to the option of the troop. The should make its decisions through the PLC. 'Todays' PLC not the PLC 5 years ago.

 

Bob White

 

PS Netscouter,

Even the BSA does not require scouts or scouters to be "in Full Uniform ALL the time". Try water skiing in a full uniform! Not very practical.

Let's be less worried about wearing it "all the time" and more concerned about wearing it "correctly at appropriate times".(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[netscouter]

I misunderstood you, you are correct, Uniformity is the most important, it is better for everyone to not have hats than some have campaign hats, philmont hats, or troop hats.

 

Netscouter.

 

Please review my web site, there is a thred under Open Discussion.

http://www.troop5bsa.cjb.net

 

Thanks!

[dan]

The scout handbook says that the hat and Kneckerchief is a TROOP option.

Notice it said troop and not scout.

I say this is one time the troop has an option on this policy.

 

 

[k9gold-scout]

In our area (left coast) many scouts do not wear the full uniform (scoutmasters too). Some scouts think that if they wear the shirt, they are "in uniform". The most common reason an Eagle Scout Canidate is sent home without a board of review is that he is not in a full uniform.

[Bob White]

netscouter,

Learning the importance of good grooming is more important than all looking identical. Nowhere does the scouting program ask, require or suggest, that every scout in the troop should dress identically. How does dressing identically help develop character, citizenship or fitness?

 

 

dan,

I agree that hats and neckerchiefs are a troop option and the troop should decide. But this boy's troop didn't decide. The boys in the troop 5 years ago made the decision. If you want the current troop to wear the identical uniform it should be their decision and their choice of uniform options. shouldn't it?

 

Bob White

[Bob White]

netscouter,

At your invitation I visited your website. I was a little surprised at what I saw for someone as insistent about the "full" uniform as you. Granted everyone has the same neckerchief on, however...

There are photos of scouts in uniform with a JLT patch in a location specifically reserved for a National Jamboree participation patch. Scouts with a temporary patch on the left hand pocket where the rank should be. Adults with youth patrol patches on their sleeves. and scouts with Troop numerals in too low of a location.

 

I also noticed that not everyone wore the same belt (also a uniform pieces which has optional choices available). That made me curious as to why it is so important that the scouts all dress alike except for their belts?

 

Now you have a great site, and it looks like your uniform infractions have not kept you from having a very active and interesting program. Why should another unit that wears a correct uniform though not identical, be any worse off than your unit in a nearly identical but incorrect uniform?

 

My point is that when it comes to the uniform the emphasis should be less about dressing alike, and more about dressing correctly.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[jbroganjr]

bob

The scouts where asking this young scout about 1. His trek

2. or did he attend national JLTC.

Also, I do not think we use a heavy hand for one day of the year, going to summer camp. As mentioned, rules are different year round when it comes to hats, neck wear, etc.

[jbroganjr]

Bob

I am of the belief that a scout distinguishes himself by his character, citizenship while showing he is part of the group.

The problem I have with this one scout is the way he and family are trying to come across like a super scout, better than all the rest. uniform uniforms (say that three times while eating crackers) serve to create an equal footing and allow proper rank awards, sashes, etc. to distinguish achievement. If we where to take this further, my T shirt would have a "S" on it like superman.

I agree for the most part on your thoughts on this, I should have mentioned this "superiority" aspect of it in first post, but thought that would really bias my post, when I was looking for the answer you and others have given.

As for the uniform policy, it is brought up every year at the PLC, more from the stand point that many parents and some kids do not want to have the uniform in the first place. I am proud of the boy leaders who have decided to keep in place the decision made 5 years ago.

 

[netscouter]

I realize the imperfection of our troops uniforms. I am only the web manager, however I am one of the loudest voices for uniforms.

[Mike Long]

I have a problem with scouts wearing patches and other items with their uniform that they didn't earn.

 

I always understood that the uniform was for (in part) to display achievements earned by the individual scout and not for souviniers (sp?) given to him.

 

Did he actually attend Philmont in any capacity? If no then don't wear your souviniers with the uniform if yes then wear your achievements with pride.