To Camo or not to Camo

[eisely]

I suppose that the reaction to camo depends in part on where you live. I can easily see how in some communities this would be no big deal at all. I can only say that, here in the San Francisco Bay Area, the media is always looking to jump on a boy scout story in a less than favorable way. If there were a bunch of scouts spotted in a park or camp ground, all wearing camo, we would never hear the last of it. There are parents in this area who seriously believe that the BSA is the US version of the Hitler Youth. Their sons don't necessarily buy this, and want to be part of the adventure. I don't want to put one more objection in such parents' minds to letting their boys get into scouting.

[Rooster7]

eisely,

 

They (Bay area activists) will never accept BSA because we don't embrace the politics of the day; we stand for the same "old" values that they despise. Even without the camo, they're going to find something wrong with us. That being said, I say let them write their stories. People, who can think for themselves, will see through it. Those who don't think for themselves, will believe whatever the media tells them. We'll never win those folks over anyways.

 

[cjmiam]

Maybe location does play a role. If a group of adults saw a bunch of kids wearing camo around here, they'd figure they'd be going hunting.

 

Pwlane: My Scouts know how they are to act while in or out of their uniform. If they act differently depending on what type of clothes they are wearing, then I'm not doing my job.

[Weekender]

We allowed the boys in our troop to make the decision on what our uniform would consist of. For our Class A we wear the scout shirt with BDU pants and a maroon beret with rank pins. In the summer we switch to scout shorts. Our uniform is one of the things that the webeloes think is very cool about our troop.

[FScouter]

If my troop elects to wear polka dot t-shirts and purple plaid golf pants, that may or may not be appropriate attire for Scouts. But it is NOT a Scout uniform. All of the choices for Scout uniforms may be found between the pages of the Scout catalog. Until "BDU" pants are available at the Scout Shop or in the catalog, they are not part of the Scout uniform.

[cjmiam]

Maybe there would be less discussion about the official uniform if everyone could afford wearing it. I'm sorry, but $40 for pants is excessive. I once encouraged kids to wear the official uniform, but now I encourage anything green. And to be honest I really don't care. If the BSA wants kids to wear the uniform, then they need to make it affordable to the average Scout. Making money off of kids, especially when they change 2 or 3 sizes in a year is downright disgusting. As I recall, (and I'm not going to waste my time looking it up in some book) but as I recall, the uniform is in part to show unity and equality. I see no reason why that can't be accomplished in other ways that don't cost $110 to outfit. All you uniform nuts can send me all your extra money and Ill waste it on subsidizing my Scouts uniforms, because we have better things to spend our money on. Give me a break!

[Dedicated Dad]

I would reiterate. Arent we still talking about Class B uniforms that only require a BSA logod shirt/t-shirt and the scouts discretion for the rest of his outfit? i.e. shoes, sox, pants/shorts, sweatshirts and outerwear? Further, arent we discussing the appropriateness of como in the discresionary part of the Class B uniform? Pants and outerwear are the most likely candidates for como and are often found on sale after hunting season. As long as the BSA continues to offer shotgun and rifle merit badges, both of which require general hunting knowledge, it would seem that camo is indirectly endorsed by the BSA. BTW, proud poppa side-note here, my then 11 yld passed his shotgun merit badge at his first summer camp this past summer, something his peers challenged his capacity to accomplish. He went 16 for 16 on his last round and his councilor told him he was easily the youngest he had ever passed and the best he had at camp this summer. Were big waterfowlers out here in Maryland, its part of our culture, lets not get too distressed about benign inanimate apparel, it doesnt cause behavioral problems (free-will and all that) and its only controversial to the paranoid PC crowd.

[dan]

When you said (and I'm not going to waste my time looking it up in some book) you lost the agrument err I mean discussion, IMHO. If you will not even try to see what the policy is you can not be following the policy of the BSA.

I have looked it up and I could not find anywhere that said you cannot wear camo, what I read into the policy is you can only wear, the official uniform which is not camo or blue jeans, If some one can direct me to a OFFICAL BSA site or book that states no camo, please do.

I do not like the uniform, the shirt is slippery and will not stay tucked in, and the pants ride up on me, but I still wear them. Because I believe it is the right thing to do.

As for the cost I also agree with you, but if you waste your time and look at the some of the older posts you will see some really good ways to obtain uniforms cheaper.

 

[Rooster7]

Dedicated Dad,

 

I agree with your assessment regarding the wearing of Class B's and camo. We have very similar views. By the way, I'm from Maryland (Bowie) too. Sounds like you're on the Eastern Shore. Did I guess right?

 

[cjmiam]

Dan, if it appeared that I was saying following the book was a waste of time, thats not what I meant. What I was trying to point out was that I already did read it in some book and what followed would be paraphrased. In other words I wasnt going to use my time just to get the absolute correct wording. However, since you brought the thought up, in my opinion some people do waste a lot of time and get way to stressed-out over some guidelines.

 

Dedicated Dad: youre right, I was a bit off track, but as you follow the threads you can see it does digress a bit to some other ideas on why camo is or isnt a problem. I personally dont have a problem with camo, but I think it would be less of an issue if more kids were able to wear the official uniform. In other words, if our uniform met the same durability standards, versatility, and expense of some other types of clothing, kids would wear the uniform rather than something else.

 

Your son did a fantastic job! The passing rate for Shotgun at our summer camp was less than 50% and that was mostly older kids! It certainly isn't an easy badge. Tell him way to go.

 

[eisely]

Has anyone noticed how many times this thread has been read? I would not have thought that this would be such a hot issue, but I guess that it is.

[P_Swigs]

It's time for a cold bucket of water on the whole issue.

[FScouter]

The Scout uniform is one of the most publicly recognizable and visible outward signs of the Scouting program. To the community the uniform presents a welcome image; "Here are some local kids who are doing some good things." The positive image that the uniform projects is a good thing, and we need that.

[sctmom]

I looked in MY Boy Scout Handbook and it said "you don't have to have a uniform to be a Boy Scout". Not that I'm an expert, but I thought there was no "official" class B.

 

A problem I have with the uniform is my son is really small for his age. I don't think those size 8's are going to fit him next spring when he crosses over. And now that they want all 4th grade Webelos to wear the green pants, I know a few that aren't going to be able to get them to fit, especially since they don't come in slim sizes. Oh, the lady at the Scout Shop said I could have them custom made ........HAHAHAHA, Yeah Right --- let's add another $10 to those pants my child will not wear for more than 1 year.

 

Hadn't caused any trouble all day, just had to join in on the argument..oops..discussion.

 

[KoreaScouter]

I used to be one of the "screw the uniform, it's too expensive, they outgrow it too fast" guys, but I've changed, especially as it relates to camo (or BDU) items. Here's why:

 

- expensive? Yeah, if you get your stuff from the catalog or council trading post. I got a good pair of pants for my son, fit him pefectly, for $9 including shipping, from an EBay auction. At $9, I don't care what he does in them or how fast he outgrows them.

 

- Perception? That's like trying to define a bad attitude -- you can't, except to say it's any attitude you don't agree with! We've got enough image problems when our Scouts look like a catalog page -- why make it worse with "in your face" camo clothing? I'm on active duty in the military, and I'm here to tell you, we have a lot of restrictions on where and when we can wear BDU uniforms off the base. Why? It's an image/perception thing! BDUs are a work utility uniform that are supposed to look like h#$l; Uncle Sam doesn't want us running around shopping malls, restaurants, or other public areas in mangy BDUs. And guess what? He doesn't want you doing it, either! Let's face it, most of the Scouts who want to wear camo pattern clothing don't order it new from Cabela's; they get it used from military surplus joints, in many cases with the insignia still sewn on. And that's another problem -- there are federal laws concerning civilians wearing military clothing items that haven't been de-mil'd. Since September 11th, we've been chasing our tails trying to track down every lost ID card or every uniform stolen from the back of some guy's car... do you really want one of your Scouts getting caught up in a misunderstanding or case of mistaken identity like this? Hunting? We're not supposed to be hunting as a BSA activity, either -- why create the impression that we are, even if we aren't...I wouldn't want to be the Scoutmaster having to explain to the committee why my troop was on what looked like a hunting trip.

 

- Safety: I already mentioned I'm on active duty. I'm stationed in Korea, and believe me, I do not want our Scouts being mistaken for combatants over here. It's a little more difficult conducting an outdoor program here than it is in the U.S.A., but we get out and about quite a bit. Our Scouts get respect and admiration from the local populace when they're in their Scout uniforms...I've gotten things thrown at me in my military BDUs.

 

- Perspective: When I hear a parent complain about the cost of the uniform (and they do), I ask them what they spent on Junior's soccer cleats, basketball shoes, or last couple Game Boy cartridges or DVDs? We'll gladly shell out money for that because Madison Avenue tells us we have to. As a full-uniform convert, all I can tell you is that when my son put the whole uniform on for the first time, he looked, acted, and felt differently than he did before, and I kick myself for not doing it sooner.

 

It's true that you don't need a uniform to become a Scout, and if I were the parent of a new Scout, I'd probably want to wait a while to see if he sticks with it. But, once you know he's in it for the long haul, get him the whole uniform.