Uniform award transfers - Cub to Boy Scouts

[muzikar]

All,

What is the official guideline on transferring awards from the Cub Scout uniform to the Boy Scout uniform? I've got the awards person purchasing me the following, rather than removing from my son's Webelos uniform:

 

Arrow of Light, Recruiter, Religious Emblem, Tiger Cub.

 

Can the above four earned awards legally be displayed/transferred onto the Boy Scout uniform?

 

This is what I've been telling my scout parents the last 4 years, but now a district person has questioned this.

 

Please quote from a good source or provide a URL to back this up, please.

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[Bob White]

An Excellent question, and and area that is often misunderstood. The only Cub Scout awards that can be permanently displayed on a Boy scout uniform is the Arrow of Light patch (Not the Knot)and the serive star on the yellow background. The Webelos badge may now be worn temporarily, until the Scout Badge is earned.

 

A common mistake is the religious award. That was earned in Cubs using the Cub requirements and DOES NOT transfer to the Boy Scout Uniform. The Scout would need to earn the award as a Boy Scout under the Boy Scout requirements.

 

The same goes for the Recruiter bar.

 

Bob

[muzikar]

Looks like this time the sewing part will be easier than the research to do the job.

 

After a long search, I found the best online explanation at:

http://www.bsa.net/co/p467/Insignia.html

Item 24: "Arrow of Light Badge. It's the only Cub Scout badge that can be worn on a Boy Scout uniform."

 

The best image I could find for the left pocket was at:

http://www.pack846.org/Awards/leftpockettan.htm

 

So, that keys me into the Service Stars. My son went from Tiger Cub to Webelos 5, with AOL. So, the new uniform will have the AOL on the lower left pocket, Yellow Service Star with the max no. 4, and Orange Service Star with a 1.

 

Seems a shame about not being able to transfer the Religious Emblems. He earned two and wore the one badge, with a pin signifying the second. Guess he'll start over with that.

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[Bob White]

Now you can also add the Tiger cub year to the Cub Scout years and just wear a 5yr Cub star.

Don't look at it as starting over, it's not, it is continuing his religious service but at a laevel in keeping with his personal growth.

[NJCubScouter]

Bob White says:

 

The Webelos badge may now be worn temporarily, until the Scout Badge is earned.

 

I had not heard that before, and it is directly relevant to my son, who was awarded the oval Webelos badge 5 days ago and will be crossing over in a year, give or take a few days. (He is still in the blue shirt, which has gotten tight, but we were waiting until he got the Webelos badge to buy the tan shirt, put the Webelos badge on there, and transfer the "diamond" rank badges and arrow points to the red patch vest.)

 

So what you are saying is that after my son (and his den-mates) cross over, and put on their red shoulder loops to attend their first troop meeting, they may keep the Webelos badge where it is until they have satisfied the Scoutmaster that they have passed the Scout requirements and are awarded the Scout badge. This seems logical, but it points out what I think is a quirk in the rank progression, which has been underlined by the creation of the oval Webelos badge. When my son crosses over, his current rank will NOT be Webelos, it will be Arrow of Light, even if he receives the Arrow of Light badge a few seconds or a few minutes before he walks over the bridge, as is the tradition in my pack. Why didn't they make the Arrow of Light an oval patch too? If the answer is, "because the small rectangular Arrow of Light has been around for x number of decades," I can understand that, tradition is important and my own patch collection includes my Arrow of Light rectangular patch from 1969. But there is still a break in the logical flow of things when the second-highest Cub rank is the same shape and in the same position as all of the Boy Scout ranks, and the highest Cub rank is in a different shape and position. It's really not a big deal and I suspect my son won't analyze it that closely, but I have to wonder whether National really thought about this enough before they did it.

 

I am wondering, is there a publication that states what you have mentioned about wearing the Webelos badge temporarily until Scout is earned. I can't help it, I'm a lawyer and always like to read things for myself.

[Bob White]

The reason that the Webelos badge is oval and displays on the left pocket and the AOL badge is rectangle and displays below the left pocket is because the AOL is a permanent patch and remains on the Boy Scout uniform therough the entir rank progression. The webelos badge however will be rplaced by the Scout Badge soon after he joins the troop.

 

By the way the Arrow of Light is not a rank. It is an award. Granted it is the highest award earned in Cub Scouts, and as such is the only Cub Scout award allowed to be displayed on the Boy Scout uniform (as a bar patch under the left pocket)and on the adult leader uniform (as a red and green knot with a yellow border, above the left pocket).

 

The Scout badge is not a rank, it also is an award. The final rank in Cub Scouts is Webelos, and the first rank in Boy Scouts is Tenderfoot.

Bob

[muzikar]

Re:

"The Scout badge is not a rank, it also is an award. The final rank in Cub Scouts is Webelos, and the first rank in Boy Scouts is Tenderfoot. " Bob

 

Well said Bob. I don't know how many times I've confused award with badge.

 

Out of all this I learned a lot. Thanks for all the excellent advice. I guess us big internet users just expect to sit behind our desks and find all the information at our fingertips. What I would like to know is if there is an official handbook with all of this in it? For us non-lawyer laymen types :-)

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[Bob White]

Muzikar,

The Boy Scout program is too big to put into a single book. However there really isn't a question in scouting that isn't addressed in print. The majority of what we have discussed in this string can be found in most of the Youth handbooks and in the Insignia Guide brochure available through your council service center.

Bob

[FScouter]

I would add that information found on the internet may or may not be accurate. Even information gotten from fellow Scouters and roundtable meetings is sometimes faulty. Like NJCubScouter, I like to see everything in writing.

[NJCubScouter]

BobWhite says:

 

By the way the Arrow of Light is not a rank. It is an award.

 

and

 

The Scout badge is not a rank, it also is an award. The final rank in Cub Scouts is Webelos, and the first rank in Boy Scouts is Tenderfoot.

 

I did not realize that the Arrow of Light was not considered a "rank," and a bit of browsing around on the Internet suggests that people more knowledgeable than I have difficulty with the distinction as well. The Virtual Cub Leaders Handbook contains a lot of information that I have found useful, and at the following address:

 

http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/arrow-of-light.html

 

it states that "The Arrow of Light Award is the highest rank in Cub Scouting." So they call it an award and a rank. I remain uncertain of the difference. If the distinction is that a rank is something that is earned in sequence while an award can be earned at any time (or at least at more than one stage along the trail), then Arrow of Light would seem to be as much of a rank as Wolf, Bear and Webelos. (And now Tiger.) I am not sure if Bobcat is a "rank" because it is just the joining requirements (comparable to "Scout"), though the shape and placement of the Bobcat badge seems to equate it with Tiger, Wolf and Bear. (I remember from my own Cub Scout days that the Bobcat badge was a pin and not a cloth badge like Wolf and Bear -- no Tigers in those days and the only "Webelos" rank/award was the Arrow of Light itself.)

 

To muddle things further, when I was a Boy Scout in the early 70s, they changed the term "rank" to "progress award," though I believe that a few years after I left, they changed it back. More evidence that the distinction is less than crystal clear.

 

Incidentally, when I speak of "awards" above, I have in mind such things as the World Conservation Award, the heroism awards, or for Boy Scouts only, the 50 Miler. You need not earn any particular award before earning any of these awards... well, in the case of the World Conservation award, you must complete certain elective requirements for Wolf or Bear to earn it at those levels, but you actually must earn 2 of 3 specific activity badges to earn it as a Webelos. I don't know about earning it as a Boy Scout. But it's obviously still an "award" and not a "rank."

 

So, is there a publication somewhere that actually defines "rank" and "award" so as to draw a clear distinction between them? Or is this just more of the confusion in terminology that I believe is rampant in the Cub Scout program. But I guess that shouild be a topic for another trhead.

 

 

[Bob White]

I would hesitate to use a web sit as a reference. Only becuse of you do not know the knowledge base of the writer. All the official scout references I have checked refer to the AOL as an awrd. Here is one example:

 

Page 5 of the Official Boy Scout Handbook

"A graduating Webelos Scout who has earned the arrow of Light Award has completed most of the Boy Scout joining requirements."

 

Notice the scout handbook does not say "Arrow of Light Scout" but refers to the boy as a Webelos Scout with the AOL Award.

 

Bob

 

 

[Bob White]

AAARRRGGHH! I wish the edit feature worked. Let's try that last post again.

 

I would hesitate to use a web site as a reference. Only becuse you do not know the knowledge base of the writer. All the official scout references I have checked refer to the AOL as an award. Here is one example:

 

Page 5 of the Official Boy Scout Handbook

"A graduating Webelos Scout who has earned the Arrow of Light Award has completed most of the Boy Scout joining requirements."

 

Notice the scout handbook does not say "Arrow of Light Scout" but refers to the boy as a Webelos Scout with the AOL Award.

 

Bob

 

[FScouter]

I stumbled across this today regarding the Arrow of Light. BSA refers to the Arrow of Light as an award. It also refers to it as a rank. Article X, Section 1, Clause 4 of the BSA rules and regs states There shall be the following ranks in Cub Scouting: Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Webelos, and Arrow of Light. Also, the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures book states on page 18 There are five ranks in Cub Scouting: Bobcat ... Wolf ... Bear ... Webelos ... Arrow of Light .... On the other hand, on page 19 it states While working toward the Webelos rank and the Arrow of Light Award, the boy also may earn ... and When he has earned the Arrow of Light Award .... Based on what Bob said, it sounds more like an award than a rank. I suppose one could take either interpretation without being wrong. Maybe somewhere else in the regs the two terms are defined. Either way, the requirements to earn it are clearly defined.

[shemgren]

I find myself to disagree with Bob White concerning the religous award earned by a Cub Scout not being worn on the Boy Scout uniform. The Insigna Guide states that the religous award square knot on the Cub Scout uniform in place of the medal and it may be worn on the Boy Scout uniform upon gradulation into a troop. If the Scout earns one while a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout, he should wear a Cub Scout device and a Boy Scout device on the square knot.

 

Medals may be worn on the uniform, pinned to the top seam of the left pocket (the one where the Scout wears his badge of rank) for formal occassions such as Pack meetings, Blue and Gold, Court of Honor and Eagle COH.

 

Scott Hemgren

[Bob White]

Thank you shemgren, You are correct.