Those @!!%%$$$ Uniform Shorts

[sctmom]

There is an author named Daniel Pinkwater who is often heard on NPR. He is a very large man. He has written many books for kids, often about overweight children. I once heard him talk about how being outside of the "average" size he become invisible to others. You also see this happen to small children. Watch a small child walk up to the counter alone at a fast food restraunt. They will not be waited on. It's like being ignored in an expensive clothing store when you have on old blue jeans and sweatshirt.

 

It's always great to hear of a youth having an interest in Scouting, especially when you know he has a hard time fitting in other places.

 

[SagerScout]

Thanks to your alert, I snagged that 6x shirt from ebay.

 

You're right about being ignored in expensive stores but offtopic, one time I was in Neiman Marcus in downtown Dallas, the most fancy of the fancy stores - and I was about 17 or 18, did not have the price of a hot dog in my ragged jeans (or anywhere else in my posession!) and was waited on in the ladies department as if I were visiting royalty. It made quite an impression.

 

Julia

[johnmbowen]

Hi guys,

In reply to OGE's original post, which I agree with, here is a solution that our Troop has done...(may have said this before). The rules state that for non-formal wear such as on outings where the uniform shirt, pants, etc. are really a safety issue (especially for high adventure, but not so much for a Scout camp) you can do a Troop shirt. We got poly zip t-neck shirts from Sierra Trading Post (tell them you are a Scout unit!! The owners are Scout supporters) and had the Troop number embroidered on the collar. The kids like these and they are actually useful in the outdoors as the high tech fabric passes moisture to the outside like a reasonable outdoor shirt. (NO one who is a serious outdoorsman uses shirts like the BSA uniform shirts in the outdoors outside of the BSA...does that tell you something?)

 

Our friend who does the embroidery also put on a neat mountaineering logo for us, but I think in the future we will just go with the fleur-de-lis and number on the collar.

 

I don't know without asking, but our friend might be convenced to do more embroidery? I can ask if anyone is interested.

 

I have also heard rumors that Boy's Life may be dropping the requirement that all Scouts seen in the magazine pictures wear full Scout uniforms. We had a real problem with this when we were doing high altitude climbing (which we hope will appear in BL later in the year) where Scout uniforms are a real safety problem...ie they are NOT safe for anything having to do with outdoor activities, in my opinion, except for Scout Camps, Camporees, etc where the emphasis is not in a real outdoor situation where ones well being is enhanced by the right equipment. The uniforms as done present...again in my opinion...are an invitation to hypothermia in cold or wet environments, and are also not good in very hot weather. You are right OGE!

 

Take it as you may!

JB

[johnmbowen]

Hi guys,

In reply to OGE's original post, which I agree with, here is a solution that our Troop has done...(may have said this before). The rules state that for non-formal wear such as on outings where the uniform shirt, pants, etc. are really a safety issue (especially for high adventure, but not so much for a Scout camp) you can do a Troop shirt. We got poly zip t-neck shirts from Sierra Trading Post (tell them you are a Scout unit!! The owners are Scout supporters) and had the Troop number embroidered on the collar. The kids like these and they are actually useful in the outdoors as the high tech fabric passes moisture to the outside like a reasonable outdoor shirt. (NO one who is a serious outdoorsman uses shirts like the BSA uniform shirts in the outdoors outside of the BSA...does that tell you something?)

 

Our friend who does the embroidery also put on a neat mountaineering logo for us, but I think in the future we will just go with the fleur-de-lis and number on the collar.

 

I don't know without asking, but our friend might be convenced to do more embroidery? I can ask if anyone is interested.

 

I have also heard rumors that Boy's Life may be dropping the requirement that all Scouts seen in the magazine pictures wear full Scout uniforms. We had a real problem with this when we were doing high altitude climbing (which we hope will appear in BL later in the year) where Scout uniforms are a real safety problem...ie they are NOT safe for anything having to do with outdoor activities, in my opinion, except for Scout Camps, Camporees, etc where the emphasis is not in a real outdoor situation where ones well being is enhanced by the right equipment. The uniforms as done present...again in my opinion...are an invitation to hypothermia in cold or wet environments, and are also not good in very hot weather. You are right OGE!

 

Take it as you may!

JB

[johnmbowen]

Hi guys,

In reply to OGE's original post, which I agree with, here is a solution that our Troop has done...(may have said this before). The rules state that for non-formal wear such as on outings where the uniform shirt, pants, etc. are really a safety issue (especially for high adventure, but not so much for a Scout camp) you can do a Troop shirt. We got poly zip t-neck shirts from Sierra Trading Post (tell them you are a Scout unit!! The owners are Scout supporters) and had the Troop number embroidered on the collar. The kids like these and they are actually useful in the outdoors as the high tech fabric passes moisture to the outside like a reasonable outdoor shirt. (NO one who is a serious outdoorsman uses shirts like the BSA uniform shirts in the outdoors outside of the BSA...does that tell you something?)

 

Our friend who does the embroidery also put on a neat mountaineering logo for us, but I think in the future we will just go with the fleur-de-lis and number on the collar.

 

I don't know without asking, but our friend might be convenced to do more embroidery? I can ask if anyone is interested.

 

I have also heard rumors that Boy's Life may be dropping the requirement that all Scouts seen in the magazine pictures wear full Scout uniforms. We had a real problem with this when we were doing high altitude climbing (which we hope will appear in BL later in the year) where Scout uniforms are a real safety problem...ie they are NOT safe for anything having to do with outdoor activities, in my opinion, except for Scout Camps, Camporees, etc where the emphasis is not in a real outdoor situation where ones well being is enhanced by the right equipment. The uniforms as done present...again in my opinion...are an invitation to hypothermia in cold or wet environments, and are also not good in very hot weather. You are right OGE!

 

Take it as you may!

JB

[Bob White]

Johnmbowen,

Your posts suggest that the BSA requires scouts to be in uniform all the time, they don't. It also suggests that the dress uniform shirt is the only shirt that the BSA says can be worn with the uniform, it isn't and they don't.

You can look in almost any Boys' Life and see scouts not in uniform (check out 'Get a Rope' in the June 2002 issue.

 

You have always been allowed to wear clothing that fits the activity and your environment All the BSA says is that if you are in uniform, be in the whole uniform.

 

Units who wear nothing but the dress uniform in everything they do, do so by their own choice or tradition, not at the instruction of the BSA.

 

Bob White

[drosa]

After having read all the comments about BSA uniform shorts I just had to add my own experiences. If you think you guys have problems with shorts fitting, we female leaders have worse problems. The shorts were definitely not designed for women at all. I end up buying a larger size and then having them altered. I find it easier to just wear the uniform skirt- at least it fits.

[OldGreyEagle]

Given the heritage of boy scouts, Drosa, what would you say if I joined you in skirt, of course on me it would be called a kilt.

 

What say you guys, given the current uniform shorts or a BSA offical uniforn kilt, what would you wear? I am for a kilt, especially on hot muggy days at camp.

[vonlaeng]

There is nothing wrong with the boy scout uniform, shorts are a major part

of a boys uniform. B-P had stong views

regarding boys and shorts. This subject

has been going on for years, each generation of boys does not like wearing scout shorts, but they are still there, and will remain so.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Welcome to the Forum Vonlaeng,

 

Its not wearing shorts that the scouts in my troop object to, its the fit and cut of the shorts that causes the problems

 

[Zorn Packte]

Reading old threads can be interesting.

 

(NO one who is a serious outdoorsman uses shirts like the BSA uniform shirts in the outdoors outside of the BSA...does that tell you something?)

 

During my time in service, I knocked about a bit. I've known professional hunters and guides in far flung bits of the world who wore shirts with pockets, usually the shirts were a khaki color. I think that the desire to run around in an undershirt with printing on it is somewhat of an American affectation.

[denver4und@aol.com]

If you ever wanted proof that the right hand and the left hand don't even know each other's office and floor numbers at national bsa hq, the issue of uniform shorts is it.

 

Have you noticed what STAFF wear at Philmont and Sea BAse? They wear commercial shorts made by Columbia Sportwear Company. Both Philmont and Sea BAse embroider their own emblems on the legs and the staff wear them without complaint.

 

As for my troop, we're changing over to Columbia shorts. WE bought matching ones for Sea Base and they worked very well with the uniform shirt and socks, color is kind of a drab brown/green. Philmont and Sea Base, by the way, use a cream or buff color.

 

so National, wake up, and get the uniform division and the high adventure division working together -- BUT FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE DON'T LET THE UNIFORM DIVISION SET UNIFORM POLICY!!!!!

 

yis, Jim

[SR540Beaver]

A few weeks ago I went to our local surplus store looking around and came across the BDU's. Many may already know this, but there is a company called Propper that makes official military issue BDU's in a variety of colors. They make shorts and pants in an olive green. They make them in kid's sizes too. They are better cut, heavier ripstop material than the scout shorts. They have larger functional pockets that have hidden buttons under the pocket flaps. The pant legs can be worn straight or have a drawstring for gathering and wearing inside boots. The waist has an adjustment tab on both sides for custon fit. Many scouters frown on BDU's because they are thinking of camo BDU's. These can be ordered in olive. I think they are a great alternative for the lousy uniform shorts. I'd suggest having scout shorts for full uniform events and using the BDU shorts for outdoor use. You can find these pants at http://www.propper.com.

[johnmbowen]

I agree with denver4und completely.

 

However, as pointed out to me previously, what Scouts wear in the field is pretty much up to the Troop. The rub comes (or came) if you wanted to submit a story to Boy's Life, or Scouter Magazine, where the rule was that all Scouts had to be in uniform if you wanted them in a picture. This may be changing. My Troop is in Boy's Life for this Oct. (the mountaineering article), but no uniforms are visible (!), and this was the issue that I had.

 

Safety vs. Style.

 

If a Troop goes into the outdoors away from cars or lodges (ie away from a Scout Camp) for most any event, then the clothing used is for the safety of the individual. Not for style, not for tradition, but for safety. A person that I talked to at the National HQ confided that the higher-ups did not quite understand that fact, and more or less wanted Scouts on a glacier at 18000 feet to wear Scout Shirts and Scout Pants. THAT is a safety issue! When I see Scouts in that kind of position in uniform, I see a contrived photo!

 

Even if a person is going backpacking, or sailing where wind and water can provide a real safety hazard through hypothermia or hyperthermia, then adhering to a uniform that is made for looking good inside becomes a safety issue. One of the respondents earlier stated that no (non-Scout) outdoorspersons used outdoor clothing similar to Scout uniforms...and for this good reason. Many Scouters disagree, but I suspect that they do not fully engage in what the Scouts term "high adventure" and what we call just plain trips.

 

So you are right denver4und...do what good outdoorspersons all do...dress for the event. Dress for safety, and not for style or tradition. And don't worry about pictures in magazines, or tradition, worry about safety.

 

Our guys now wear zip-T neck shirts made of fleece or microfleece with the Troop number embroidered on the collar, making a very useful and appropriate top for everything. We have always worn the type of shorts you recommend when rafting, summer hiking and even climbing, and of course we use gore tex overpants and parkas, plus all the appropriate gear when climbing big mountains.

 

The good part is that the Scout magazines are re-thinking their uniform picture policy. Safety of the Scouts in the outdoors is, in reality, far more important than style or tradition.

 

Hike on - dress smart...if you die, we will split your gear! (but only if it is good gear!) Too many Scouts get into trouble in the outdoors anyway to get into trouble this way too.

[willysjeep]

Hey, they could seriously revamp the uniform. If they did, though, somebody like me might be complaning in a year. The more they change it the more it will cost. If they made some descnet uniform pants out of wool, some shorts out of cotton (for hot weather only, shorts don't help with hypothermia), and mabey a wool blend shirt you could get by wearing the uniform out of doors. Back in the day all they had to wear year round was the wool blend, natural fiber uniform. Wool would make it so much better for winter, and cotton so much better for summer.