Uniform Costs

[Tiny1pj]

While I am not opposed to unions, and have belonged to 2 differant unions, my guess is that this is a major reason for the outrageous costs for scouting uniforms. EVERY piece of official uniform I have seen has a union label. How much does that add to the cost of our uniforms?In the US, less than 10% of the working population belongs to a worker's union.

 

Why can we not buy uniform pants for under $25? I pay only $19 for my US made jeans, that are much more serviceable than the cotton/poly pants and shorts.

 

Why can we not have access to patterns and make our own uniforms out of BETTER material. And BETTER SEWN! Every piece I have purchased has had to be repaired after less than 10 wearings. Not to mention the sizes are not stadard for US wear. I purchased several shirts of 3X size, only to find out they were closer to an XL! And I did not have time to replace them before woodbadge, as they had to be special ordered, and had already taken almost 3 months to get.

 

It is time BSA and Supply Divisino take notice that they are harming the movement by their actions.

 

Paul Johnson

hopalong99@hotmail.com

[jmcquillan]

I don't think the uniforms are any better made than other clothing on the market. In fact, there's alot of things out there that are, indeed, better made, at less cost. Union made or not. I would think that the BSA might shop around to get a better quality item for the money we pay, or charge less for what we get now.

 

[Kevin M]

It's definitely frustrating to try to encourage the boys to wear full uniform when 99% of them can't afford it. I've only paid full price for a few items for myself or my 2 sons, and we all have complete uniforms. But that takes alot of time in thrift store shopping. If enough of us make a valid statement to BSA Supply and National, our voices will eventually be heard. In the mean time, our troop continues to work on uniforms a piece at a time, encourages reasonable substitutes to save money, and allows jeans (unfortunately).

[Bob Russell]

I guess I disagree with the comments here, in that I don't think prices of uniforms are out of line. Expensive, yes, but to compare uniform costs to general production clothing such as jeans is not realistic. BSA uniforms are somewhat limited production/limited market items, and I'm not aware of any type of uniform clothing that does not have a cost penalty. Beside limited in production, I would guess that there is a longer shelf life in the stores, and this will effect the price.

 

As far as quality, I've worn the same shirt for my 10 years as a Scouter, giving great thanks and appreciation to my wife who keeps switching patches as necessary. In this time, I have had only one pocket stitch start to come undone. I do not have any other article of clothing that old, except army surplus gear. I do treat the shirt more as a dress shirt, for meetings and such, as I do not wear it on high adventure outings. To me the BSA uniform is not suitable for that purpose. I would think it would be hard to create a uniform that looks good for ceremonies and meetings and also works well in the outdoors.

[Tiny1pj]

In reply to Bob R., as an Army Officer, I always had to purchase my own uniforms, and because I was nowhere near a post clothing sales, I had to buy these things from traditional retail outlets. I still paid LESS for my officers uniforms than the BSA uniforms. And if you remember your history of the BSA uniform, you know that a military surplus uniform was chosen to keep the costs DOWN!

 

There may be areas of the country that the average income makes the cost of the regulation BSA uniform look reasonable, but that is not so for the people I know. That is why EVERY clothing store in this county that catered to the "middle to higher end" has gone bankrupt - the populus just cannot afford to spend $100 or more to clothe their children with a single outfit that lasts only a year (or less!).

 

You mention never having a problem with your uniforms falling apart - you are very lucky. I have had to repair EVERY modern manufacture uniform I have come across, new or used, due to poor workmanship, poor quality thread, mismatched seams, etc.

 

[chanoneescouter]

As of today, there are only 3 suppliers of official uniforms left in the U.S., and BSA will not go overseas to purchase uniforms - another instance of unions pricing their goods out of range and themselves out of jobs.

[jbroganjr]

Yes, the prices are a bit steep, but I wonder how much national's cut is on the price.

More importantly, is how badly designed the uniforms are, especially the pants. I am no longer a Little Kid and don't feel the need for the stretch waist band whose only purpose seems to be to let my shirt fall out as I bend over to start/cook on a fire, etc.

And what knucklehead thought it a good idea to have a pocket on top of a pocket? Did they think it a wise choice to have bulging material as you fill both pockets? And having a square bottom pocket I find lends itself to letting the things in that pocket escape when sitting down. Why can't the extra pocket be put on the the side of the thigh, so it's not in the way of a pack waist strap.

I have heard many men like the womens' yellow shirt, though I have never heard of any women likeing the yellow shirt.

But If we scouters have it bad, has any one ever said to themselves, Boy that profession looks good in that blue blazer!!!!

Thanks

John

[scamp]

My response isn't so much about cost, but that is a problem. It is my understanding the pocket on a pocket style on the pants was a stupid attempt to resurrect the beloved cargo pocket when so many of us protested the cargo pocket's demise. "The cargo pocket is back as you requested!" was advertised but what you got was that stupid little pocket on a pocket that was in a ridiculous location. You mentioned that most women don't like the yellow shirt, but from talking to my women Scouter friends, that is because of the color, not the style.

[Yak_Herder]

I fully support a move to both improve the quality and reduce the price of uniform items.

Uniforms are an essential element of the Scouting Movement. They must be available to all.

I don't know what National takes as a "cut", or what the local Council may get, but that portion should be zero. We can fund the BSA through better methods than a surcharge on uniforms.

Please, someone, take a look at outdoor gear sold nationwide. The difference in quality is dramatic.

I would support maintaining the current level of quality if the price reflected that quality. But, even then I would hope they offered something that was of higher quality in addition so that I had a choice.

The current shirt is so thin and poorly tailored that they often look sloppy. The patches add some weight, the fabric sags. Let's not even talk about how bad an Eagle badge looks hanging there. It's disgraceful.

That brings up another issue that upsets me. The quality of the awards has dropped to a horrible level. Compare the original medals to those presented today. They look like dime store knock-offs.

I would hope that no boy works for and earns an Eagle Award simply to have the badge. But dangit, that badge should be a reflection of the sacrifice and work he put into earning it. The current issue is downright embarrassing.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Good evening everyone. I would like to put my two cents in on the cost and quality of the current uniform.

 

First off I would like to say that the lack of proper uniforming of the Scout troops in this country is first and foremost the fault of the adult leaders. Cost and quality is not the reason, I will address this next, the real issue is as a population we have become a nation of slobs and our priorities nedd adjusted. It seems to be more important to look cool or comfortable, wearing our clothing in a sloppy manner. I see this everywhere, malls, church, civic meetings, the kids dress the same the adults do or the 'adult' has not stressed why in certain sitiuation appearnce does matter. It shows respect to others, self, and the importance of the place we attend.

 

In response to Tinypj, thank you for your service to our nation. Yes we need to keep the cost down and I'm sure you are aware the cost of gov't. issue uniforms is the price Uncle Sam pays its vendors. No mark up or profit needed because we supplement the cost to our service men and women via our tax dollars. The reason BSA went with military surplus had nothing to do with cost. In this time of our nations history the Army look was 'cool' to the nations youth. Scouting was founded by a military man who knew the benifit of a uniform. Military surplus was about the only durable goods in the market place and because of the color, lent them selves well to the out of doors. The added benifit was because it was surplus it was inexpensive. Or was it? I have read the cost of a 'Scout' uniform was about $5.00 and the average family income was $112.00 per month.(4%) If we were to say that todays average family income is $2,000.00 and the cost of a uniform is $100.00 that makes it (5%). Compare that to other goods. I would like to say I agree with John (jbrogan JR) That the design is not the best or functional in the field. And as far as Nationals cut, I don't know what it is but I do know I have exchanged items purchased at Scout shops in other states with out a problem. Yes They do make a profit. Bob Russell rightly pointed out that they cater to a limited market. Remember in BSA early history we did not have Scout shops and Scout supplies only started to appear in department stores in the early thirties. Scamp and others say they miss those beloved cargo pants and yes the new pocket location baffles me, but if sales on this item was strong they would still be around. Yak-Herder hit the nail on the head when he said uniforms are needed. Our organization is judged on many levels and being neat and uniform sends the bigest PICTURE. As far as the quality my uniform has served me well in the seven plus years I've owned it. The reason the new waist band! Most of us Scouters and Scouts don't do a very good job with the 'keep my physically strong' part of the Scout Oath. As for the quality of the awards, I dont think there is a whole lot of difference in quality. I collect Scouting memorabilia and have seen some older awards that could have been made better.

 

All said, I think each one has a good point but are these points or excuses why uniforms (complete) are not worn valid. I often read how Scout units from poor parts of this nation find ways to be properly uniformed. I also hear the most complaints from families that can afford the uniforms.

 

I know how hard it was for me to earn the money needed as a youth to buy the uniform. It can be done if we make it a priority.

 

Maybe someone out there can tell us all how we can lobby National to get the Scout uniform functional, of better quality, and affordable. I would sign on to this idea and do my best to support it.

 

Thanks for lending an ear.

Uncle Bob

[Tiny1pj]

Uncle Bob, I live in the poorest county in Wyoming, with the highest (adjusted for seasonal fluctuations) unemployment in the state. Approximately 1/3rd of my Cubs are in single parent families, who earn $6.90 an hour at the Wyoming state training school, the county's largest employer.

 

We "scholarship" any who state that they are unable to pay the registration, and ask that they pay for the following year's registration from their popcorn commission.

 

My own income is only $800 a month (SSDI), and my wife and I have not earned enough to have to pay income tax since I have been disabled.

 

That $100+ uniforming cost for each boy is an awful lot to come up with when we have my entire income going to housing, and fully a third of my wife's is paying insurance.

 

I know there are a lot of folks out there that cannot send their kids to school in anything not new and brand name. And I see it every day here.

 

However, my troop, and most of my pack, is not in that category. The hole are honest work holes, not in them for fashion. My entire den is in the same financial category we are, yet they worked very hard and completed the arrow of light, and all 20 webelos activity badges in under 13 months.

 

I would love to know what it is like not to have to worry about making next months bills. However, scouting is still a priority in my family. However, I doubt that anyone will wear a new uniform because of the cost. And we will not be going to a jamboree because a month and a half of wages per person is just more than we can stand.

 

Paul Johnson

[Uncle Bob]

Good morning Paul.

Having been in a simalar position years ago my heart goes out to you. You are to be commended for bringing Scouting to your comunity. It would be great to see all Scouts uniformed but as you illustrate it is not always possible. My point was to those units that can afford to be uniformed but chose not. They seem to be the ones that protest the most.

 

Congratulations to your Webelos. I wish BSA as a whole could come up with a way to make Scouting more atainable for all and that Councils in your situation could get more help.

Keep up the good work.

 

YIS, Uncle Bob

[Tiny1pj]

Thanks Uncle Bob.

 

It is a great thing to see boys "doing their best", especially when we see so many who barely try.

 

There are probably a lot of boys out there who would joing scouting if not for the costs. We do what we can, however it is never enough.

 

My thoughts immediately go to a story I heard once -

A man was walking along the ocean, and saw another up ahead of him, stooping down and throwing something into the ocean every few steps. He caught up with the second man to see that he was throwning starfish back into the water. He told them man " your task is impossible, you will never make a difference." the second man said "it mad a differance to that one" as he tossed another starfish back in the ocean.

 

I know I will never be famous, or win a Nobel prize, but if I make a differance in one boy's life, may be my actions will live on.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul Johnson

[shark]

Sorry to say this, but the uniform prices are too high. I have been active in scouting since the second grade. There was no tiger program then. I am a third generation Eagle, and have an older son who just earned his Eagle. I have stayed active in the scout movement and look forward to my other two sons climbing the trail as well. I refuse to pay $30.00 for a pair of shorts that my eight year old will wear for approximatly 6 months. I don't agree with the price structure at all. I beleive that this prevents units from Quality status, because they don't feild 100% uniformed scouts. We must make this known to the national office.

[Chippewa29]

Two ways my troop deals with parental concerns about their sons outgrowing uniform parts. First, we keep have a troop uniform bank made up of uniforms from former members or that people have picked up a garage sales. That has helped quite a bit over the years. Second, we tell the parents to see what size fits their son now and buy one size up. Usually, the shirt will then last the Scout two years. In our area (we tend to live in an upper middle class area), the families go school shopping every year (spending an average of $400 per child) and buy new hockey and soccer uniforms each year (costing $100 plus). Therefore, having to buy a Scout uniform once every two years doesn't seem like such a big deal. Besides, the only items that will need to be replaced because of size are the shirts, pants, and shorts. The belt, hat, and neckerchief can all last forever. I've had the same troop neckerchief for 18 years and it is still in great shape. I've gone through a few belts and hats over the years, but that is because I've lost them or traded them away. Except in the poorest areas (like tiny1pj's) it is an option for Scouts to do some odd jobs for relatives or people around the neighborhood. In addition, Christmas and birthdays can be good occasions for new Scout parts.