A few individuals again abusing restricted items on eBay.

[KC9DDI]

Packsaddle - You have my nomination for "Analogy of the Century."

 

Scouting patches are to tiger testicles as viagra is to ....?

[ScoutBox]

ditto.. Above^^^^

 

I have a new scouter in my Troop, and he just came back from California, and Oklahoma. He visited two of his old councils. and brought me back a load of OA flaps, and CSPs. He told me that one could buy any council strip in the scout shops now days. He was unhappy because that takes away from the boys who go to camporees, and Jambos and trade. His thought was Why trade when you could just buy them off the shelf. He was remembering when he was a scout and trading at events like Jambo.. Makes since, but it still doesn't change the fact of Free Enterprise. Also I have found that my Scout shop doesn't sell any patches from other COuncils. maybe it's due to where we are. outside the loop to say. Another thing I saw was that Scout Shops usually don't sell patches that are special to other councils or districts. example, and special Flap. or course CSP, but just the standard issue stuff.

[Eagle92]

All I can tell you is based upon my experience working for a national scout shop way back when.

 

1) restricted items were just that, RESTRICTED. You had to show some type of evidence saying you got that award. Certificate, pocket cert. uniform with the item on it (this was pre-EBAY) pictures from the event getting the award, etc. No evidence, then you either A) had to wait until we got verification depending upon what item it is, i.e. calling NESA for Eagle verification, the national division handling awards, local council, etc. or B) not get the award.

 

National scout shops were required to keep a specific amount of inventory based upon sales if memory serves. And we had to keep a full set of knots in the drawers behind the counters. I think at a minimum, we had to have 3 of each knot, with some having higher minimums, i.e. youth religious knot.

 

I know of only one person to buy a restricted item without evidence he got it, besides leaders buying for Scouts for presentation, and that was me buying a Heroism Award knot for a friend who did earn it as a birthday gift. He was a fellow summer camp staffer, and needed some knots for his second shirt. His knots were identical to mine, except the Heroism one. And more than likely the CD called in advance about it since we talked about it and the asst. manager knew who I was talking about having the award, and what I planned on doing.

 

2) SEs had influence on what could be sold and could not be sold. SE could state if restricted OA items could be sold or not. At my shop, restricted OA items like the sashes, lodge flaps, Vigil pins, ceremonies, etc, were only available through the local lodge. But items like the OA History, OA dangle, necker, etc were available.

 

CSPs may or may not have been available. Again SEs when I worked could say that the council would only be availble within council territory.

[Crew21_Adv]

Fellow Scouters and Patch Traders,

 

Greetings!

 

I always thought of these guys that sold multiple patches in Lots on Ebay as working in the manufacturing embroidery business or factory, rather than them being actual Scouters.

 

Kinda like "A few fell off the back of the truck", if ya know what I mean. They count them as mistakes or slight defects when they come off the loom, and a few extra errors fall off into a cardboard box to take home (and ebay) rather than going to the shredder or incinerator.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[andysmom]

The way I see it is if someone is selling a huge quantity of restricted items then yes, I would think there is something shady going on and "honest folk" might want to avoid this seller. If, however, I put on eBay a couple of the 2010 cub rank patches that got put back into my advancement box for whatever reason(a boy earned it but never showed up to get it, miscount during purchasing, etc)why is that a problem. I am talking 1 or 2 patches here. It is a way of building up the pack's account and clearing out stuff that we won't use and maybe someone else can (collection, replacement, whatever). If someone is purchasing patches, the Centennial Eagle patch for example, to wear when they didn't earn it, then I feel sorry for them.

[Scouter.]

Having seen this post and knowing I was going to our local Scout Shop (Nationally run) ...I looked at ScoutStuff.org to see what items were restricted.

 

With that info...I headed over to the Scout Shop to get what I needed...+ to see if they would sell a restricted item to me.

 

Yes with no problem at all.

 

I picked up a "International Representative" patch.

 

They did ask me if I was one (no) and said I could not wear (I said I don't plan on it.)

 

That said.... For $3.19 I purchased that patch.

 

eBay is selling them for anywhere from about $30 - $90

 

So...did I do anything dishonest by requesting to buy it, admitting that is not my Council Position, and stating that I do not plan to wear it....?

 

If I were to decide to sell that on eBay and BSA National sold it to be...

 

...where is the issue?

 

Over the years I have acquired a variety of not easily acquired (and restricted items (via eBay and trading). If I decide to thin out my collection (or accumulation) am I breaking some law?

 

It appears this is a touch subject, but if I can buy it, why can't I sell it?

 

Confused as to what the big deal is.

[ScoutBox]

I've now earned the International KNot, and asked my Scout Shop if I could order some. I was told they didn't carry them, and I'd have to go directly through my Council Office who would make the order for me. But they cost 10. bucks each.. WOW!

 

Same with a new WB Necker or Beads.. I guess my council is sticking by the rules..

[Frank17]

Blame the scout shops, not the ebay sellers.

 

The "restriction" is based on the sale of original items from the scout shops / scoutstuff.org. It is not based on secondary sales after the item has already been purchased from the BSA stores. The ebay sellers have a legal AND moral right to sell items; after all, collecting / trading / selling scout memorabelia has been going on since scouting started.

 

Now wearing scouting items on a uniform is different; if worn on a uniform, the implication is that they were earned by the wearer, and not just purchased. In that case, the wrong is done by the purchaser / wearer.

 

But as a collector and scouter who has used ebay extensively, I see no issue with selling resticted, rare, or personal scouting items on the site, as long as they are not counterfeits (which happens also).

 

[BadenP]

 

 

Even if someone is wearing a uniform with badges they never earned, who is going to question/challenge them? or really even care?

[Eagle92]

Scouter.

 

Please tell me you are joking. My old boss would have been p!$$3^ off at any one of us who would have sold stuff. Heck I got an attaboy for NOT selling some stuff off the shelves to 3 young ladies trying to play dress up for Mardi Gras. How did I know what they planned on doing? A) I knew the sorority they were in was planning a party as it was at my school, and B) heard them make references to the date of the party while in the shop. I asked htem for their membership cards, which they didn't have.

[Scouter.]

No joke.

 

I'm not sure what else they would have sold me either.

 

I've got a friend that is the International Rep for our council...I'll give it to him.

 

I can't wear it.

 

But someone was right...you can buy it from your local scout shop.

[krypton_son]

While I agree that some things shouldn't be sold on ebay, I can't really be too upset about this.  I collect patches and sometimes the only way you can get them is from ebay.  I don't have the whole set of the centennial rank patches and I'd love to get it.  Honestly, I'll probably go to ebay to do it.

Edited November 14, 2016 by krypton_son

[jr56]

Collecting scout items is one thing.  Buying things you have not earned, and then wearing them on your uniform as if you have, is something totally different.

[krypton_son]

Collecting scout items is one thing.  Buying things you have not earned, and then wearing them on your uniform as if you have, is something totally different.

 

I agree 100%.  I collect Boy Scout memorabilia.  Rank insignia are a big part of that.  I have several knot patches that I haven't earned myself, I would never think of wearing them.  I am all for rank patches, knots, medals, etc. being for sale on ebay, it's a great place for collectors to get them.  Trying to pass them off as your own is despicable.

[Ankylus]

and since it is a copyrighted item I believe, there could be actual legal implications.

 

Actually, copyright is of no assistance here. The Copyright Act of 1976 contains an explicit limitation on copyright under what is known as the "first sale doctrine". Under this doctrine, once a copyrighted item is sold the rights of copyright are exhausted. This is the same doctrine that lets you sell your used books and records to stores that specialize in that kind of things. (There are some rights of copyright that are excepted from this doctrine, but they are not pertinent here.) So once an evildoer legitimately buys the item, his resale activities are beyond the scope of copyright law.