Basementdweller Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 There is no comebacks........ Do the right thing just that simple.... Put your foot down on the rules you can enforce and make it stick.....they will either love you for it or fire you...... smoking in front of the boys snatch that cigarette and put it out.... forged signature med form gets tore up......... Last minute stuff don't sweat it let it fall thru the cracks.... No reservations or food on campouts no problem.....Not my problem tough love......just that simple... I think your foolish for wasting your effort....you are an outsider and sounds like a figure head......You have been shown your opinions don't mean anything.... So who renewed the trailer tags?????? did he have authority to do so???? Who is the treasurer???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 > Pretty much every state requires drivers to have a valid license in their possession, to have proof that their vehicle is properly registered, and that they have proof of liability insurance. It's QUITE common for people to neglect these responsibilities, and unless you see these documents your aren't going to know --- until an accident occurs or a car full of people are arrested for riding around in a stolen vehicle or whatever. If a Scout Troop puts boys in a car with a driver who has a suspended license and they get into an accident, that is likely to be evidence of negligence which is going to increase the damages people collect from Scouting. It shouldn't be burdensome for people to produce these documents. We are all required to have them every time we drive. I just experimented--- it took me about five minutes to dig those three cards out of my wallet and verify that they are all up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 the tour permit used to require you enter insurance coverage and DL info on it.... I have not partook of the new tour plan yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 While you say it's not an option, I still think leaving is the best. There is no much dysfunction there. If you choose to stay, then you need to basically be the bad guy, and do everything totally by the book. 1. Tear up the medical forms that are forged. 2. Add an addendum to the summer camp forms to mention that some of the fees are coming out of the Scout camping account. Personally, I wouldn't hold that against a scout trying to get a campership. If anything, I would consider that to be a bonus, and a better reason to get a campership. 3. Stop the smoking in front of scouts. Start with asking them to put it away nicely. Tell them that if they need to smoke, they'd better get out of sight of the Scouts, and out of smelling distance of them as well. We have an ASM who smokes. He has "ASM moments" which is code to the adults that he's stepping away for a smoke. 4. Have them check into the real prices of the trailer. I can't imagine there would be that much of a savings on a troop sized trailer. 5. If a Parent wants to be a Scout Parent, so be it. That means they aren't Committee members or ASMs. They have no say in voting, etc. They can't sign off on requirements, etc. 6. At least initially, ask for license/reg/proof of insurance before trips. Have them sign a form, so you have it on record. 7. As you are the SM, you can quiz them on what you think are missed requirements for rank advancement. If you don't think they've done it, don't sign the Scout Spirit. (It's not in the Scout Spirit to be dishonest or to shirk requirements). You need to be strict and by the book. If you're not, they will eat you alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Can't help thinking that I'm missing something? DS - What do you want me to tell you? Seems to me that you know what and where the problems are. So the $64,000 question is what are you willing to do or not do? When faced with things like this I write down my options. Number one on my list is always the same: Do nothing! Most times doing nothing doesn't work because if it did then there is a good chance that there wouldn't be a problem to start with. Saying to heck with it and leaving is also an option. Take my word for it there have been times when I've really wanted to do this and tell some people where to go! Why haven't I done this? Mainly because of my own ego and I hate for "Them" To think that they got the better of me! I should add that it is a very big mistake to say that you will go if your not prepared to do so. Maybe if you take a long hard look at the list of things that are causing you to be upset, you will see that some are an easy fix. Asking the smokers not to smoke around the youth members shouldn't be that hard. Some things are just wrong and just are not acceptable. Let this be known and because they are so wrong there shouldn't be any debate. Maybe there are a couple of things on the list that can be put on the back burner until such a time as it makes more sense to take them on. Not trying to hijack the thread but... I worry when I see: "I am the Scoutmaster for this Troop who's primary goal is to revitalize this Troop that started in 1936." History is great but we don't serve the Troop history we serve the kids that are here today and if we do a good job the Troop will serve the kids that will come. Looking back is a big mistake. Failure to do what is needed will mean that all thats left is a history. Ea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaf Scouter Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Drivers license, registration and car insurance is needed for the Tour Plan. May 1st changes things and its all online and transferable from the TroopMaster. I'm asking once a year when new people come in and reviewing previous info. Its like pulling teeth to get it since they don't see the process I have to do plus parents are just NOT organized either in their own lives, me thinks. Our district requires 100, 300, 100 for car insurance so I really need to verify that to prevent parents from car pooling another that doesn't have the correct insurance coverage. Most people have the standard 50, 100, 50. ASM is still on the old coverage info and online lists the wrong info for our 'district'... *sighs The reason our district is higher is because we live countryside and there is lots more traveling between events with us being so spread out over a larger area than most of the council. Basement.. On trailer regs, committee meeting is next Wednesday and I have NO plans to register it at the moment. Already calling COR and bringing him into the picture to take ALL the trailer issues since they defeat the Troop revitalization goals the UC and I came up with. Next is sitting with COR, UC and I and then another with CC and I before next weeks Committee Meeting. You are right in I set the rules and enforce them. I think I'm trying too hard not to scare anyone away be putting down so many of them as we need these new crossovers to help with revitalize of the Troop. UC has been really helping me with narrowing down all that is on my plate to 4 goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 primary goal is to revitalize this Troop that started in 1936 You might want to point out that one of the barriers to revitalization is a slip-shod attitude towards paperwork and paying fees. When parents see you all glossing over details, they will be less comfortable with 'lil junior in your care. A 50, 100, 50 has been adequate here. I'm not about to ask if that has changed. Did your DE say why? I can see how some folks might be hard pressed to up their policy. Anyway, make it clear that you expect everyone to work through issues, not tiptoe around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 we are back to a question that I posed a couple of weeks ago... Is it worth saving?????? Not trying to offend you just don't sound that experienced... So where is the poison in the troop???? Something is driving the boys away????? You need to put your finger on it...... Far as your 4 new crossovers, Are you doing them a favor by keeping them in a DEAD troop????? There is no shame in walking away..... My son's first scout troop was a family thing, it was run my a grandfather who was SM, CM, CC and COR......His grandson was hell on wheels......beating the crap out of the other boys.....Well he bloodied a kid up so I reported it to the CM, CC and the DE....I asked for his mother to be present at all further meetings......Well it didn't happen and he knew I spoke to his grandfather about what happened.....Well he now fought several times a night......punching holes in the dry wall breaking furniture...... We quit and moved to another Pack... My sanity, and safety were at stake.....Plus it was very apparent that nothing was going to come of the reports to the DE.......... So how much are you willing to pay for trying to turn the unit around?????? Eamon has a point Ego......(This message has been edited by Basementdweller) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaf Scouter Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 I understand why y'all are say. At one point in December when the charter was late I had considered it. Now that the new parents are here I see them getting on board. Basement: So where is the poison in the troop???? Something is driving the boys away????? You need to put your finger on it.... Yeah I know what THEY are! Funny part is at Roundtable tonight my District trainer singled me out about someone NOT being trained in my Troop and they are on my 'revitalization plan'... *laughing Their training is so OLD that its not even transferable to another course. My trainer did me a HUGE favor now by stepping onto my team unintentionally.. *laughing Eamonn: Not trying to hijack the thread but... ""I worry when I see: "I am the Scoutmaster for this Troop who's primary goal is to revitalize this Troop that started in 1936." History is great but we don't serve the Troop history we serve the kids that are here today and if we do a good job the Troop will serve the kids that will come. Looking back is a big mistake. Failure to do what is needed will mean that all thats left is a history. "" I'm not looking back but I do look back like Basement said to find the poison. The HUGE poison is no longer a BSA and now has a record. So much so that they can't even attend our Spaghetti dinner if its held in a park. (another issue.. Basement... is getting that registered person to stop using this poison connection.. *sigh) We can all just simply be thankful that NOTHING ever happened within our Troop thanks to the 2 deep leadership requirement.. WHEW. But small town is what it is. Eamonn.. I am child geared focused! Understanding the impact of all the different factors of the past puzzle pieces helps put in new regulations toward a NEW goal and NEW history where the scouts have a boy-led troop and OUTINGS in ScOUTINGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 DS my situation was similar....But the old boys in the troop, the guys that eagled in the 40's and 50's are on board with us. they want to see the troop survive and thrive.....Keep their training up to date..... To be very honest if it weren't for old age getting them, I doubt I would have a position in the troop...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raisinemright Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Sounds like your district is practicing the same thing in reverse. It takes a lot of nerve to tell someone that in order to drive some kids around 4-5 times a year, they have to triple their insurance coverage beyond that required by BSA. Yesterday, a friend of mine paraphrased something he read in Aristotle wherein he stated that when a government creates a bad law, it encourages people to violate all laws. Not to hijack the thread but we already shell out tons of money to be Scouters. Tripling our insurance coverage to satisfy the whim of some district guy is just wrong. If they want extra coverage, the district should apply a blanket policy to cover all scouting related trips and scouters can register as insured parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaf Scouter Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 Actually you couldn't be further from the truth, raisinemright. It was a District vote to raise the insurance not a DE vote. The cost to the parent was $20 bucks a year for a raised level. I was shocked when I realized it wasn't asking for much from me especially since I car pooled for Troop meetings and trips. It was extra protection to me the driver when one thinks about it. We have MANY parents that car pool kids on a weekly basis. so asking for this is really for THEIR protection as well as the youth leaders. We are a very spread out council (over 100 miles approx.) and before we merged we ALWAYS had to file a tour plan because much was done OUTSIDE our council, 10 miles thata way ----->.... *grins just to take advantage of city offerings... *smiles Now we don't have to file the tour plan as much but we still have to do the 'driving' part. I'm lucky to be at the top end and within touching distance to the merged council but most everyone else still has the long, long drive so there is still a need for the higher insurance for safety/liability reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 If the "Scout Account' is paying part of a Scout's camp fee, then the reality is the Troop is paying part of a Scout's camp fee since the Scout Account holds Troop money, not the Scout's money, unless the Scout and/or his family have directly contributed to it (and I don't mean by participating in fundraising - I mean by handing you cash or a check to hold in his "scout account" for Scouting expenses). Trailer issue? Unless you have a physical address in Maine, you won't be able to register the Troop Trailer in Maine. Doing so without one is likely to be considered a form of fraud by both Maine and New York. Register it in New York. Falsify Doctor's signature? That is a crime - I'd refuse it and give them the opportunity to retract and get a real signature. Insurance covers an examination only every 5 years? Then they have really (really, really) bad insurance - the vast majority of insurance companies will cover an annual examination, they encourageit - it's less expensive for them in the long run - the every 5-year thing sounds like someone may be misinterpreting their coverage - there are some specialty exams that may not be covered on an annual basis, but annual physicals? Not very likely. Car insurance? The tour permits will be your friend, but the reality is if you asked, they said they had it, and they ended up in an accident and didn't have it, the liability falls to the driver. Waiving certain requirements? Before you send a lad to the BOR, make sure he's actually passed the requirements - if someone else has "waived" them beyond policy, you don't have to accept it - the Scout can go back and do the requirement. Smoking in front of Scouts? Don't allow it - we don't allow drinking in front of Scouts either. Scout Parent? What's a Scout Parent?? Is that some kind of new registration? The BSA has a ScoutParent description on their website but they never mention it being a registred position - it's more of a way to remind parents that even if they aren't registered volunteers, they are still expected to be involved. If they want to be a Scout Parent, that's fine - they can assist where they can, but get no say in Committee or Program - if they want to be involved in Program, they can become ASM's, if they want to be involved in Program Support (aka Committee), they can register as Committee Members. Don't set yourself up with your own, separate "Scout Parent" registrations that don't go through National - you really don't want the liability if something goes wrong that could have been prevented by a background check which you likely won't run on your own. As for District (sure you don't mean Council) required insurance minimums, if they meet state minimums, I'm fine with it - if they exceed state minimums, the District can pound sand and find new drivers unless they're going to provde the vehicle I'm going to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Don't ever, and I am stressing EVER, falsify signatures, or be a part of it. That is fraud, is a crime, and can get you in some serious legal trouble. Especially medical forms. Read about the court case in FL about the 17y.o. who died on a hike. That is one nasty lawsuit against the leaders and BSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaf Scouter Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 THANKS Eagle92!! I have no intention but glad you mentioned the article as now I use that as an example to prove my point!! I do the ScOUTING because I volunteered and cuz I LOVE it. I don't need nor want any lawsuit, period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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