Use of Scout Salute

[jw_elder77]

I'm new to scouting never having been one myself. My son wanted to join, which was great. We joined a Tiger den and after about the 2nd month, our den leader had been a no-show to a couple of meeting (den & pack). I volunteered to be the den leader with th e intention of only serving this year. I think I migth stick it out until my youngest is through Cub Scouts. We'll see.

 

Enough of the background. I'm taking the Tiger Cub Den to a hockey game this weekend and we are going to be in uniform. I know when they play the Star Spangled Banner we will salute. My question is what should we do when they play Oh, Canada (Canadian national anthem)? Should those in uniform salute or remove hats and just show respect?

 

Thanks.

[Trevorum]

Welcome to the forum and Welcome to Scouting!

 

You and your son are going to have a great experience, I know!

 

I would imagine that Canadian citizens would salute while the rest of the audience would stand respectfully, including Scouts in uniform.

[Eamonn]

http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/anthem_e.cfm

This is the link to The Department of Canadian Heritage.

Here is what I found

Etiquette during the playing of the national anthem

 

As a matter of respect and tradition, it is proper to stand for the playing of "O Canada" as well as for the anthem of any other nation.

 

It is traditional for civilian men to take off their hats during the playing of the national anthem. Women as well as children do not remove their hats on such occasions.

 

There is no law or behaviour governing the playing of the national anthem; it is left to the good citizenship of individuals.

While I don't think that there is any real black and white answer, I know that I as a British Citizen do salute the American Flag, in fact I will use the Scout Salute for any National flag. More out of respect than anything else.

I have seen American Troops in the UK participate in flag ceremonies, where both national flags have been hoisted ( Which is unusual, as normally the Union Flag is broke!!) at the same time. Both Flags should be about the same size and flown at the same height. Both Flags are treated with respect.

When I came over to work at a American camp. they wanted to fly the American Flag on top of the Union Jack, I wouldn't allow it. So we flew the American Flag on top of the International Scout Flag - I was OK with that.

Welcome to Scouting. I hope your team wins. We don't have any hockey at the moment thanks to the strike, but with everything going on with the Steelers, I don't think too many people have missed hockey!!

Here we go Steelers.- All the way!!

Eamonn.

 

 

 

[Trevorum]

Eamonn, an interesting perspective, though I don't fully understand why you salute the American flag. I feel that a salute is not only a sign of respect but also a sign of alliegance; I would not want to salute the Zambian flag any more than I would the Union Jack. Although I must admit, I have never been in either situation and would most likely follow the correct protocol, whatever it turned out to be.

[EagleInKY]

I believe the proper protocol is to stand at attention and respect flags of other nations. You only salute official US flags, including the predecessors (the Betsy Ross, the 48 star, etc.)

[SemperParatus]

Would you stand in respect for a flag of a nation that your country is at war with, or that has an atrocious record of human rights violations, or both? Sixty years ago, I don't think I would have stood in respect of the Nazi flag had it passed before me. Ten years ago, I doubt I would have stood in respect of the Iraq flag. Today, I doubt I would stand in respect before the flag of North Korea. While I may have compassion and concern for the citizens of these nations, I have little respect for the governments (which the flag is symbolic of) and their actions.

[EagleInKY]

Semper - Of course not! I was speaking to his particular situation, the Canadian anthem being played at a Hockey game.

[SemperParatus]

EagleinKy...sorry...I can see that now...I was having a bad afternoon.

[Eamonn]

As I said I have never found anything in black and white. To me and me alone it all comes down to a matter of respect.

I respect the American Flag and what it stands for. Heck this country has been kind enough to allow me to live here and earn a living for over 20 years.

I get upset when I see people who burn Flags as a way of protesting. I don't see it as free speech, I just see it as being wrong. Plain out and out disrespectful.

Yes I can see that when you are at war with another nation that their Flag, becomes a symbol of something that no longer is to be respected. However once a war is over, we are men and nations of peace.

I have the greatest respect for cultures and symbols of different nations and different organizations.

I don't say the words of the American Pledge of Allegiance, any more than I would expect an American to sing the words of God Save The Queen. It is worth noting that the band outside Buckingham Palace did play the American National Anthem on 9/12/01. It was followed by a two minute silence.

At times I see things from English history, become great the thinking behind great American thinking: The Magna Charta (1215) Which did lead to the American Bill of Rights.

We live in a very mixed up world,not so very long ago I would have had a hard time counting all the countries that used God Save The Queen, as their national anthem. Today it seems that there are more royalists in Canada and Australia, than there are in Scotland. We live in a global economy, it's now a status symbol to drive a German car and use a Japanese camera. It seems that when I get dressed the only thing made in the USA is my underwear. Maybe in 20 or 30 years time the status symbols will be coming from Palestine and Iraq?

Some friends of mine think it is very funny that we at times visit a club called the Kosciuszko Club. It seems that Tadeusz Andrzej Bonawentura Kosciuszko played a big part in beating the Brits back in 1776. Our English history books make no mention of the old boy. They however think it's hilarious that I would drink a beer, with a picture of the old Lad looking down at me. For my part I don't care. But it seems Thomas Jefferson, called him

"As pure a son of liberty as I have ever known,"

It seems that America and Americans have a long history of making hero's out of non-Americans:

August 18, 1797, throngs of Philadelphians lined the wharves to welcome a Polish-born Revolutionary War hero back to the United States. The mob carried him on their shoulders while bands played and cannons fired fusillades of homage. The object of this adoration, Polish-born engineering genius, Thaddeus Kosciuszko (KOS-CHOOS-KO), was called by Thomas Jefferson, "as pure a son of liberty as I have ever known."

Next time the President is some place where they play the National Anthem of another country I will be keeping my eye on him.

Eamonn.

 

[Eamonn]

SemperParatus,

While not wishing or wanting to come off sounding as a smart Aleck.

When you wander into your local Wal-Mart do you buy stuff from China?

When it comes to Human Rights violations they are up there.

Eamonn.

 

[SemperParatus]

I don't shop at Wal-Mart.

[Eamonn]

OK - You got me!!

Eamonn.

Thanks.

[Aardvark]

I spent 13 years in England while in the AIr Force. Every day at 1600 (4 o clock for you civilians!), the colors were retired.

 

It was a RAF base (although the only RAF stationed there was a Group Leader-the RAF Commander) so "God Save the Queen" and the "Star Spangled BAnner were played.

 

Protocol was to stand at attention and salute.

 

I had no qualms saluting during the Brit Anthem; we were guests after all.

 

Same goes, I would think up in Canada. Stand at attention and pay respect. You are not pledging alleigence to the goverment, just respecting them.

 

My two cents....

[Trevorum]

Why 4 o'clock?

[FScouter]

"Every day at 1600 (4 o clock for you civilians!), the colors were retired."

Do you mean retired or retreated? I've always considered that we retire worn out flags not fit for use. Is that also the proper military term from running the flag down the pole at sundown?