Best of the best., finding the Eagle

[desertrat77]

The solution can be found in our past: de-emphasize Eagle.

 

Stop the over-the-top salesmanship of the wonderment of earning Eagle. Tone down the coronation-like Eagle ceremonies. Cease the chase for numbers (more more more!). Cancel MB universities. Close down the Tenderfoot to First Class force-feed sessions at summer camp. Cut homework MBs and Eagle project bureaucracy. More emphasis on being a PL and SPL, and outdoor skills. Do the leg work to find MB counselors on one's own time.

 

Then the situation will correct itself. The scouts who really want Eagle will over come any obstacle to earn it. They'll be the best.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[Eagle732]

Mountaineer said "The BSA is not awarding PM certifications as part of the Eagle rank (get over it)"

Really? Get over what? Maybe you could go back and reread my post. I was comparing the testing procedure of the two, not advocating that every Eagle earn a Paramedic license too. Geez!

 

Also you might believe that Eagles are not "the best of the best". I believe that Eagles SHOULD represent the best of the best in Scouting. I believe that unfortunately we need to make improvements, many of which desertrat77 just mentioned.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

"I have one question;

 

What?"

 

Two answers to that question: Yes. And No. Which fits depends on what what.

 

 

Re: testing. If Merit Badge or ranks were tested and those tests were recognized and somehow accredited like CLEP or DANTES, that'd be neat. But it would be costly to maintain test security standards and to maintain tests deserving of accreditation. The skills portions of tests would be even more costly as we'd need a system to train and accredit examiners to high and uniform standards.

Some would be willing to pay for that kind of thing.

Others might prefer that a wide range of unaccredited MBs and Scout rank options remain for those who want to have the experience and character and skill building but are less concerned with earning a marketable credential.

[Eagle732]

Mountaineer said "The BSA is not awarding PM certifications as part of the Eagle rank (get over it)"

Really? Get over what? Maybe you could go back and reread my post. I was comparing the testing procedure of the two, not advocating that every Eagle earn a Paramedic license. Geez!

Also you might believe that Eagles are not "the best of the best". I believe that Eagles SHOULD represent the best of the best in Scouting. I believe that unfortunately we need to make improvements, many of which desertrat77 just mentioned.

 

Eagledad, I don't know about letting scouts pick the Eagles based on their experience with the candidates. Boys have a natural desire to be fair and to help others succeed. I've seen it many times during troop elections when a scout is elected to PL or SPL or appointed to a position based solely on the fact that they "need" a job for advancement. When offered the choice between electing the best person for the job or electing someone who needs a POR they always seem to choose the one who needs it. I can't imagine a troop voting down a boy for Eagle except in the most extreme circumstance.

 

Of course all of this is just musings that make for good conversation. We have to work within the system we're handed.

[Eagledad]

>>When offered the choice between electing the best person for the job or electing someone who needs a POR they always seem to choose the one who needs it. I can't imagine a troop voting down a boy for Eagle except in the most extreme circumstance.

[JMHawkins]

I'm with Desertrat77, it's the hype that generates the adult-run conveyor belt for advancement. So long as that exists, there will be considerable pressure to continue on the current course.

 

But assume we fix that. What changes should we make?

 

I would change up the PoR requirements for Star-Life-Eagle. I'd say only the true leadership positions count (PL/APL/SPL/ASPL/JASM/TG). I'd also require the performance be judged at the end, and only a passing grade would count. Who would judge? Ideally the scouts in the patrol/troop (depending on the PoR) with the SM having an override for the occasional boy-led misfire.

 

I would also add outdoor adventure/leadership requirements. For Star, it would be completing a 3 night/30 miler. For Life, completing a 5 night/50 miler. For Eagle, planning and leading a 5 night/50 miler.

 

Those two changes would re-focus advancement at the higher ranks on citizenship within the patrol and troop. Eagle would no longer be a solo project the Scout can do on his own (or under Mom and Dad's "guidance"), but rather something he does as a member of the unit. Leading a group of 6 peers on a week-long high adventure trip will teach a scout a lot more about the rights and duties of a citizen than all three Citizenship in... MBs.

 

 

[Eagle732]

Instead of an Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project they would do a n Eagle Scout Outdoor Leadership Trek. I like it!

[Sentinel947]

I disagree. I like the Eagle Projects. I think it's important for Scouts to give something to their community. Just my two cents.

[Eagle732]

Oh we can still have X number of service hours required, but some here don't like prescribed service hours either.

Can't please everyone but since I'm just making these requirements up I can make them into whatever pleases me