Boy Scout Handbooks

[Eagle732]

Our troop purchases handbooks for all new scouts but after no more than 6 months of normal use they are falling apart. the binding fails and the pages start falling out.

 

I wonder if National is aware of the fact that these books fall apart after a few months?

 

All BSA products have a lifetime warranty. The Scoutstuff.org website says " If, for any reason, you are dissatisfied with any item purchased from the Boy Scouts of America, you can either exchange the item for a replacement or receive a full and complete refund. No questions asked."

 

Maybe we should have scouts return the book for a replacement. Anyone done that?

[perdidochas]

The spiral bound are the worst.

[Basementdweller]

Sons spiral bound is doing well after three years..... I made a book cover for it....

 

I purchase one to teach IOLS out of it is in good shape...

 

 

Eagle return them and see what happens......

[Eagle732]

Made a call to my council's scout shop. The initial response is that if the books have writing in them they will not allow them to be returned. The call went like this:

 

Me: "Can I return a handbook that's falling apart?"

Scout Shop: "Is there writing in the book?"

Me: "Of course there is, the boys use them, but they're falling apart."

SS: "Sorry we can't take books back if they have writing in them."

Me: "But I thought BSA had a satisfaction guarantee on their products."

SS: "Sorry, we can't take books with writing in them back."

 

BSA statement on scoutstuff.org " If, for any reason, you are dissatisfied with any item purchased from the Boy Scouts of America, you can either exchange the item for a replacement or receive a full and complete refund. No questions asked."

 

I have an email in to the National Scout Shop's customer service. We'll see if I get an answer.

 

(This message has been edited by Eagle732)(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Eagle,

 

 

I await hearing the reply you get with interest.

 

Personally, I think it's important that their poor product be THEIR expense and not that of some Scout.

 

 

I have a Scout belt with a brass buckle. The friction bar is worn and wont hold. I asked about that at the Scout shop and they recommended buying a new belt. I think I should take it in and expect a replacement under their guarantee.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Even if there is a guarantee with no time limit, I would feel a little too self-conscious about trying to get a refund for, say, a belt buckle or anything I had worn for several years, which was just worn out.

 

However, if the new handbooks are routinely falling apart after six months, National needs to be held to their guarantee, whether there's writing in the book or not. If the book is not being abused (as my son's was, and it was in really bad shape and was being held together by a lot of tape by the time he finished) but is just a low-quality product, it shouldn't be tolerated.

[Eagle732]

My troop has always bought books for new scouts. We just started seeing this problem about two years ago. My son's book which is 5 years old is fine. My book which is 45 years old is still good. Today's books just are not holding up to typical scout use.

 

I received this reply from National:

"You are the final judge of our products. If, for any reason, you are dissatisfied with any item purchased from the Boy Scouts of America, you can either exchange the item for a replacement or receive a full and complete refund. No questions asked.

You can return or exchange any item purchased through any Boy Scouts of America online store by mail.

Timeline for returns:

If, at any time, you are not completely satisfied with your purchase, simply exchange it or return it to us for a refund.

Refunding Shipping and Handling Charges:

Unfortunately, we cannot refund original shipping and handling charges placed on catalog or online orders.

Scoutstuff.org"

 

Since the books were bought at my council's scout shop they don't seem to be covered. And since council is not interested in dealing with the problem it looks like a dead end.

 

[Eagle732]

My reply to National:

 

"If I'm the judge of your products then it is my opinion that your current run of handbooks is defective. I have purchased handbooks for the scouts in my troop for 6 years. I noticed that the books purchased for the group of scouts who joined in March 2011 began to fall apart after a few months use. This trend continues with the books purchased this last March.

 

I have read you promise (http://www.scoutstuff.org/retail/customer-service) which states in part "you can either exchange the item for a replacement or receive a full and complete refund. No questions asked" Your guarantee posted on the scoutstuff.org website does not mention shipping fees nor does it mention that the guarantee is limited to online store purchases. I would like to exchange these books at my local council shop but they refused when after I was asked if the books were written in any I said yes. Apparently they don't subscribe to the "if for any reason you are dissatisfied" and the "no questions asked" part of BSA's promise.

 

Thank you"

[SeattlePioneer]

I seemed to recall that there was a Book Binding Merit Badge. There was, but it's been discontinued.

 

Perhaps that was a mistake. A summer camp or troop exercise could be rebinding a failing Scout handbook.

 

I wonder how practical that would be?

 

Does anyone have the Book Binding Merit Badge among their accomplishments?

[Second Class]

We have noticed the handbooks falling apart as well

Two things we recommend is the canvas/Velcro binder k and storing the book in a gallon sized Zip Loc bag.

I think I may try to return a few of these books at our Service Center. They are very responsive. That'll be the test; if they can't fix it, it's because of The Radio Shack man.

[eisely]

I have always been amused by "lifetime" warranties on anything. The question arises, "Whose lifetime are we talking about?" I have been told that lifetime refers to the expected life of the product. That could be two weeks or years.

 

Having said all that, I have never had a problem with a handbook, but then I haven't bought a new one in about three years when the current version was just released.

 

I would think that any publisher or manufacturer selling products for use by boys would be well advised to offer no warranty whatsoever.

[Eagle92]

One thing to remember, local distributors, i.e. most council shops and other businesses, do not have to honor the warranty, only nationally owned scout shops do.

 

In fact when I tried to return a defective pair of pants to the local distributor, I was told they couldn't honor the warranty they would be charged a restock fee if they tried to return them. However I could return them to the national shop with no problem.

 

And the first time I returned the pants, it was NO PROBLEM. Second time, the clerk tried to tell me he couldn't do it, but I reminded him about the policy, asked for the manager, and when one wasn't available, asked if I needed to call Charlotte and ask about it.

 

I got the pants exchanged.

 

What's interesting is that A) I had older pants that went though more abuse that were in better shape than the 2 yo pants I exchanged

 

B) The employee was talking about how he goes to REI every year and gets new boots fro free b/c he exchanges them b/c the soles wear fast.

 

[Eagle732]

After my last email I got another email requesting that I call National Supply. They were very receptive and offered to take the books back and reimburse us for shipping. I'm now waiting on an email with an address so I can send them.

 

Supply said that every once in awhile they get a bad batch, they know about the problem, and they think they have addressed it. They also said the council shop would not take them back.

 

 

 

 

 

[AZMike]

I've seen so many copies of the current edition with the most important, high-use pages (advancement sign-offs) falling out. A lot of scouts wind-up stapling a detached page onto another page, then that page onto another page, and so forth. I always tell them to photocopy the advancement pages regularly in case they lose a page (or the whole book.)

 

I know trade paperback books can be bound so they lie open and flat, which makes the pages less likely to detach. Probably more expensive as well, but they get a lot of use. Those pocket-size notebooks are designed as a "temporary" place to note advancement sign-offs during a campout or such, with the proviso that they are to be transferred to the main "official" handbook later. There's probably a lot to be said for carrying the little notebook around to get signs-offs and keeping the main book in a safe place, since the handbooks are so fragile.

 

[SSScout]

 

Used to be the sign off on rank requirements was on a seperate little card, much like the "Blue Card" for meritbadges, except it was tan (?buff?). 'Course back then, the Merit Badge was signed off on a seperate card too, without any "partial" passing. The MBCounselor either signed as passing or didn't.

The book was a book, not a 'record ' book.