Do you really need a book to advance?

[chaoman45]

For years, our troop and SM demanded there be a book for signing to advance. No book, no advancement, which could also mean no book = no SM Conference. Enter the Information Age. We have Troopmaster to monitor these things and can pull up what a Scout has in terms of advancement as long as we have internet. A while back, I would record Scout advancement on paper and not in the book until I was corrected. "No, you have to fill it in the book if they want ________." Is this a proper way to record advancement - book only, rather than relying on Troopmaster or a spreadsheet?

[Eagle732]

How is the scout suppose to keep track of his record without a handbook? Are you going to record every requirement for every scout every time he completes one?

Of course just about any system would be an improvement as long as it doesn't involve the lousy handbook they use today. Everyone I see is falling apart after 6 months of use.

[Beavah]

Nah, chaoman45, no book is required.

 

Da book pages are just a convenient recording aid for those that want to use it. Or a not-so-convenient recording aid, since either the lads don't bring it on outings or da things look like Eagle732 suggests after just a few trips out.

 

Of course, your troop or your Scoutmaster can decide that da way they will keep track of things in your particular troop is to use the book. That's the troop's and the SM's prerogative, so it may be da proper way in your unit. I'd say that's probably the most common way, still, but mostly out of inertia. I do know some troops that don't use the book at all and just use an online system like Scouttrack or TroopMaster or whatnot. I did used to know some troops that just used those little requirement signoff booklets that National used to sell, or just used the big advancement poster/chart thing as da official record, posted in the scout hall where everyone could see.

 

Beavah

 

[Twocubdad]

Depends on your definition off "required."

 

Is there a policy somewhere which says, "It is a requirement of the Boy Scouts of America that all youth members possess a current edition of the Boy Scout Handbook"? No. But it's going to be really difficult without one. Kinda like a sleeping bag. No, nothing requires you to have a sleeping bag, but winter camping is going to be painful.

 

In our troop, yeah, you're required to get a book. The sign-offs in the back of the book are the proof you've completed the requirements. You come to me asking for a conference for First Class, you gotta bring your book. The Board of Review is going to review you book and make sure you have the signatures. Go to your BOR and tell them you just never go around to getting a book, the next question will be, "So how do we know you completed these requiremsnts?"

 

So on the front end, yeah, you need the book. If you're such a stubborn jackass that you refuse to buy one out or some weird principle, then you've got more problems than not having a Scout book and probably need to start looking for another program anyway ... like a therapy group.

 

But what happens if you have a book and loose it? Happens a lot. Or even more likely, the signature pages fall out of the book you have. Hopefully, you've done as you've been asked and given you book to the TroopMaster person from time to time and the troop has a back up of your sign-offs in the system. I've signed more than one spankin' new BSHB with a TroopMaster report stapled in the back.

 

But if you've got nothing recorded in TroopMaster and loose your book, we're still going to help get you through. You're going to have to go around and collect signatures from the folks who signed them in the first place (which they will be happy to do if they remember working with you). Some requirements are self-evident, like activities, or the swimming and first aid requirements if you have those MBs. But it may get down to having to repeat a few sign-offs if we can't recreate the signatures. Think of that as karma for not taking care of your book in the first place.

[Twocubdad]

Oh, and swear to Pete, if someone accuses me of "adding to the requirements" for this I'm gonna hurl.

[qwazse]

I've insisted that the scout and venturer have a permanent record of which he is the sole proprietor in which he can collect signatures from his PL and other designated leaders who can attest to his/her demonstration of scout skills. That is the primary record. Anything else is secondary backup. If a kindly MC decides to track advancement on Troopmaster thats fine, but there should be something that travels with the boy. Something he can pull up without any assistance. Something that he can crack open in the middle of the wilderness, because that's where the best SM conferences happen anyway.

 

It also would be handy if some instructions on the skills were with the record. Something that he can use when nobody is around to EDGE him into learning the skills -- something like a handy-book. Hmmmm ....

 

[Roadkill Patrol]

In our troop, your gift for registering is brand new book. We figure since we require them to use it, we are not going to create a barrier for them to get one on their own.

 

When the scout completes a requirement, they are responsible to bring their book to be signed off. It is also the scout's responsibility to bring their book to the advancement chair to have their signed off items entered into Troopmaster on a routine basis. This way if they lost their book, we have our records since they last had their items entered.

 

Each scout is told it is their responsibility (there's that word again) to keep their book in good condition, not to misplace it, and to make sure to bring it to meetings.

 

We had a scout transfer from Oregon recently who had been out of scouting for about 7 months. He said he was Tenderfoot rank and almost all 2nd and 1st Class requirements done. We asked if he had his book that had been signed off and he said that the troop kept track and didn't sign in the book. Our DE contacted both his troop and council and the most records we could get was that he earned Tenderfoot on xx/xx/xx. That was it, no partial records for completing any requirements for the next 2 ranks. Had the book been used for its partial purpose of record keeping, it would have saved him a lot of re-testing. The scout was made less responsible for his actions and made him rely on adults for his hard work.

 

[Basementdweller]

Never seen anyone puke on a non video forum...

 

 

So where does it say the book is required???

 

The current generation will see paper disappear as we use it......

 

I use an electronic signature at work so the BSA should use this

[Papadaddy]

We have always been told (and taught), that the book is the "official record" in the event of a dispute.

[Eagle732]

I second what Twocubdad says. My unit has the same policies.

Our troop provides a book to each new scout so there's no excuse for not having one.

We also recommend that scouts make a copy of the sign off pages occasionally as a back up in case the book gets lost.

 

 

[Eagledad]

I remember walking through camp one Saturday morning when one of our scouts asked as I walked by is the rinse water supposed to be cold or hot SM Barry?. I turned while still walking, but before I could answer, he fired off I know I know, look it up in the book..

 

No the book is not a required book to advance. But it can be everything else. It is THE main source the scouts refer to for all the answers. There is no need for the adults to be the experts of scout skills because its all in their book. There is no need for the adults to be the uniform police because its all in the book. In fact, the book has been the standard that has corrected and humiliated adults now and then.

 

But the book is more than that. The book is also the scouts log of their experiences and goals. Anything and everything. Dates and times for goal deadlines. Hours of service and even a menu now and then. As a SM, I only need to refer to their book to see how they are doing and ask the questions that start them into some great stories. I enjoy most the book that look like they spent a day floating down the Mississippi. What happen Billy? the Scoutmaster asked laughingly?

 

The Boy Scout book isnt the main official record to advance, but it could be. And at the very least, it should be the official log of memories. It should be a reminder of where theyve been and where they are going.

 

So while I would accept any form of log to see when the scout signed off some of the requirements, I would still like to take a peek into his life as a boy scout.

 

And can you imagine a 35 year old father pulling his dusty old Boy Scout Handbook out of a box that has been sitting in Grandma and Grandpas attic for so many years. What a treasure.

 

Barry

 

[bnelon44]

I agree with Bevah, no book is required.

 

Isn't the current BSHB available as an app? I see the online trend continuing as an option.

[fred8033]

Twocubdad is adding to the requirement. Video please.

 

Seriously though, the book is not required. Same as your membership in a troop is optional too. If a troop says that's how their troop tracks and administers advancement, it's part of membership in the troop. You can always find another troop. Though it would be difficult to find a troop that didn't use the scoutbook.

 

I must admit that I'd be gun-shy to use anything else. Ya the adults use TroopMaster and the adults use on-line software. But that's for the adults to coordinate the group. That's the bureaucracy part.

 

The key is that the scout is responsible for his own advancement. Not the adult scouters. So he needs a clean record so he can prove what he did and, more importantly, know what he needs to do to advance. You can't get a better way to track it then the BSHB. Heck, each requirement includes a page number discussing and documenting the requirement. Ya gotta like that. IMHO, the BSHB sets the bar pretty high to use something else.

 

I also favor the comment (though not wording) of twocubdad. If your going to fight or protest using the BSHB to track advancement, ya got other issues beyond scouting.

 

 

[skeptic]

While not required, it is pretty much essential. Though how some would survive should we not keep separate records of some type. And it continually astounds me how often a scout, even older ones, seem unable to even know how to find something in the book. Not only does the advancement section note pertinent pages, but there is an index.

 

As far as rank and meritbadges, any actually completed items, Scoutnet is the place it should be. If a scout transfers, that record should still be there under his registration data. Other stuff, such as campouts, service, and so on is not there. So some sort of additional record might be good to be able to give a scout should they go elsewhere, especially if an actual move to another locality.

 

Yes, the book can also be an interesting historical document of sorts, especially for a family.

[Papadaddy]

I'm a 58 year old Grandpa and I still have my original BS Handbook (1965 edition)...and Bear Book and Webelos book and Fieldbook. Yes, they are treasures. I have had Scouts who lost 3 or 4 books by the time they went for their EBOR.