Service Hours, Double Dipping?

[bnelon44]

Fred,

 

You were clear to me, and I agree. Follow what the requirement says. No more, no less. Holds true for all requirements.

[Beavah]

This happens when people start thinking the program is too easy on the scouts. Or that scouts are gaming the system. That's just bad attitude.

 

Yep, Scouts gamin' da system does show bad attitude on their part. Helpin' 'em to focus on real achievement and understandin' instead of just checkin' boxes is how we're all expected to teach character.

 

For da Citizenship badge, the purpose of the service is to help 'em see how a particular organization contributes to their local community, and a bit of how organizations like that rely on folks in the community steppin' up as volunteers. The point is to build connections to their community, eh? And understandin'. Not to tick off 8 hours with their head down not payin' a lick of attention or cross-countin' hours unrelated to da purpose of the badge.

 

Eight hours is trivial. If a lad really needs to double-count those hours, then I reckon there's an issue with Scout Spirit that really takes precedence, eh? So I'd set aside da MB work or the rank stuff and instead work with the boy on spirit and attitude. The award will still be around to continue with after he's worked through da issue of character which is more important.

 

Beavah

 

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Double dipping can be good time management and relieve one of the administrative burden of "counting" something else that one would rather just "do" and not "count."

There are times when this might look and feel like corner cutting though.

Counting something the Cit in Community service both for that and for Star may be one of those times. Unless there's a rule... it sounds like it's the call of the person responsible for signing/initialing the blocks.

[Eagle732]

"What's wrong with last minute requests? Half our projects occur during campouts."

 

What I'm talking about is the service projects that the entire troop take part in that are outside of regularly scheduled troop activities. These usually are projects that assist other organizations. An example would be to help with parking at a community event. The event organizers need to contact the troop at least 30 days in advance. That's our policy. We've had too many instances where organizations who had an event scheduled for a year in advance that neglected to ask until a week prior to the event.

 

An opportunity to do some community service during a camping trip does not pose the same scheduling and logistic problems as a service project scheduled outside a troop activity.

 

Here's our procedure and the reason why we don't take on these projects on short notice and how it adds up to 30 days.

 

Week 1: There can be up to a five (working) day wait until we even get a chance to bring it up for a PLC vote at the next meeting (request on Monday, PLC meets on Sunday).

 

Weeks 2 and 3: We require permission slips for all activities outside the meeting place and probably will need to submit a tour plan. Permission slips go out at one meeting and will be returned the next. (2 weeks time just doing this). The PLC will promote the service project during this time.

 

Week 4 (maybe). We don't have troop meetings during camping weekends (we meet on Sundays) so that can add another week to the timeline.

 

This is why we need 30 days.

We've found that the more notice we can give to scouts and their families the greater participation we have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

[qwazse]

Great!!! I love those well thought-out all aboard projects. But what if a PL decides he wants his boys to shovel out fire hydrants after last night's blizzard? (It's all I could think while sweating into the screen. Pretend we're discussing this five months from now.). He gets the all-clear from the SM the word goes out and everyone digs their way to the VFD house for lunch. (There's a coffee shop by our fire hall. I can find a couple of scouts thee on any given day.)

 

Again, they missed your deadline. Most of the bous will not get the message. Paperwork? If mom was pulling graveyard at the hospital and dad worked for the power company, junior probably just left with a note on the fridge "I'm making my way to the coffee shop by noon!" Next meeting, it's probably on each boy's honor to gauge how many hours he worked.

 

The fire chief is pleased. It makes the papers. Now do you really want the tag line to read "Troop xxx's heroic efforts: not service, says committee"?

 

My point: yes, you should plan ahead. But be flexible and prepared that boys will do great things with just there buddy on a moment's notice. I don't see anything in the book that prevents that from counting as service.

[qwazse]

We have a scout that is held up because he needs service hours for star......He will not do anything other than meetings and camp outs.....

 

No selflessness in the boy.....he is 12 years old.

 

Another FCFY success story! Does he do a good turn daily?

 

Of not let him know there's an old fart in Steeler country who would happily kick him to the curb if he doesn't shape up.

[Eagle732]

"let him know there's an old fart in Steeler country who would happily kick him to the curb if he doesn't shape up"

 

That explains everything.

 

I'm not into kicking kids to the curb. But hey you run your unit (assuming you have one) and I'll run mine.

[qwazse]

Truth is, those guys don't stick around long unless they do shape up. I've seen several FCFY boys find the door all by themselves when they realize they have to set aside an hour or two of their precious video gaming to "help other people at all times". That jump to Star, even if you let boys count hours for multiple purposes, is just too much.

 

And, no, we don't count it too loudly or preach it all that often. We're not a troop that plans a service project every camp-out. Our active boys are just putting service projects on the schedule as often as camping weekends.

 

As far as I can tell, all you can do is wait for them to grow up a little bit. One former SM told me he was sitting around the house one summer (after leaving scouts for about a year) and said to his folks, "Hey, I miss camp." Then, when he got back he realized he missed the service as well.

 

Which gets down to my bottom line [sorry it took six posts!!!]: if a boy comes up asking if he can count hours for two purposes and there's nothing in the handbook or MB book against it, you don't have to say, "yes" outright. You could ask "What to you think?" or "What would make you the proudest?"(This message has been edited by qwazse)

[Gunny2862]

In the interest of it being about the boys, and a game with a purpose, this is one of those areas where I take the youth who is asking for the double dipping into account.

 

If I know a Scout is doing 1-3 hours a week of Service every week that I would take as meeting either or both his Star and/or Citizenship in the Community MB requirement/s over any given 6 month period( after all he's going to put out between 24 and 72 hours in his regular service anyway(and in the case I'm thinking of, that's in addition to working others Eagle projects, and the other opportunities our troop does that might count)), then I would also know that in the course of his regular life that he would meet those requirements. DO I then require him to do additional hours so that he is doing them FOR the purpose of meeting those requirements? No, of course not.

 

In the same, or similar vein, if a Scout has to be prodded into doing ANY service hours then I can certainly see a valid argument against counting a singular group of hours for dual sets of requirements - to me it's more about the boys here, than a set of rules that apply to them all evenly. The message in this case is being tailored to the boy in question rather than a one size fits all answer.

[fred8033]

Gunny2862 - Nice comments.

 

Beavah wrote "For da Citizenship badge, the purpose of the service is to help 'em see how a particular organization contributes to their local community, and a bit of how organizations like that rely on folks in the community steppin' up as volunteers. The point is to build connections to their community, eh? And understandin'. Not to tick off 8 hours with their head down not payin' a lick of attention or cross-countin' hours unrelated to da purpose of the badge."

 

That's exactly the view the Citz of Community MB counselor. That's what he should communicate. That's how he should evaluate the requirement. Nice work.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

I read all this nonsense and thank god that we are active enough and do enough community service and service projects that this isn't an issue for us.

 

 

If it is an issue get off your butt and get the PLC going on some service, if they won't help them out with a couple.

 

 

I am going to say your program is sad if you need to worry about this.

[JMHawkins]

Yeah, I think Gunny's response is right. It way more important what sort of spirit a scout goes about doing his service with than how many hours he racks up.

 

I'd much rather it be more like a Scout Spirit requirment. But that would drive the bureacracy minded folks nuts.