District vs Unit EBORs

[Beavah]

Yah, I raised this in da previous thread, and it seemed like a good topic for the group.

 

The BSA allows Eagle BORs to be conducted at either the unit level (with a district representative), at the district level, or at the council level. As far as I know, there aren't any councils left out there that conduct 'em at the council level, but I might be mistaken.

 

Generally speakin', as councils have consolidated and become larger, or in areas where the district spans a bigger geographic area, the unit-level Eagle BOR has been the most common. For those of you who haven't seen one of those, it works like a regular troop BOR, though typically it's a special evening set aside and the troop invites a couple of outside folks (Eagle alumni, chartered org., other community members). The district sends a representative as a guest as well.

 

These tend to be be very personal conversations, since the boy knows some of the adults and vice versa. Recommendation letters just flesh out what everybody knows about the boy and become conversation starters, and there's a lot of positive feeling among all parties. Scouters get their "paycheck", boys get the time and interest of adults who really know him and care. They tend to run as long as the parties have things to talk about, typically an hour or so.

 

Some councils use district-level EBORs, usually in smaller councils with districts that don't span too wide an area and where troops are small. For those who haven't seen one of those, they're generally scheduled monthly, and the SM or parent drives the boy to the site where he will be one of a small bunch of boys who have their review scheduled for the night. He'll be presented to the BOR by his SM, who will then retire. The boy won't usually know the board members and vice versa, so there is more emphasis on records and recommendation letters, and things stay more formal. They're on a schedule, so the review is typically set for something like 25 minutes or so.

 

Of the two, I like the unit level BORs much more. I just think it's right and proper for the unit folks who have put in so many years with the boy to be able to participate, and I like the tone better. It's more of a conversation with new young man than an administrative review.

 

What do the rest of you think of each (or just the one yeh happen to use in your area)?

 

Beavah

 

[Horizon]

As a youth, I had a District EBOR. Met over at a church I think, and there were a bunch of candidates in the waiting room. I entered the room, gave the Oath and Law, sat down and was grilled. It was awesome - all of these adult men asking me questions about my project, my merit badges and my troop. In the group were a couple of dads from my unit, but the rest were complete strangers to me. It was a great experience for this 13 year old Eagle candidate.

 

My son's EBOR had one District person with silver tabs, our Troop's Eagle Advisor who also serves the District, and another member of our Troop's committee. It was only those 3 - so I guess it was a Unit EBOR with participation from one non-unit person. It was held at an office building as well in a conference room and it seemed to go fine.

[bnelon44]

Personally I like the district EBOR. It makes it a more formal occasion IMHO and gives a all around better experience to the Scout. It also tells the Scout, that Eagle Rank is something different, better, more important, etc. than the previous ranks he has achieved.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

[ghermanno]

Beavah,

 

Personally I think the EBOR should be a District/Council item. My thoughts are that the Eagle candidate is not there to prove his Scouting skills but to prove his Management skills. I personally think that using members of the business community such as Managers and CEO types would be better than a mom & pop type. I honestly think it should be more like an interview as we are supposed to be preparing the Scout to LEAD in the real world.

 

The Scout has already proved his Scout skills (for 1st Class) and is now proving his Leadership. He should be able to answer questions about his project (man-hours, cost, permits, usefulness, how it could be done better if done in the future, ) and his leadership of it to the board to show he is ready to LEAD. Eagle is NOT a popularity contest but a demonstration of leadership choices and decisions.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Rick

 

[BadenP]

bnelon & ghermanno

 

I agree with both your posts 100%. As an ASM, SM, and CA all of the EBOR's were done on the district level and it was indeed showcasing the Eagle as the pinnacle of the scouts journey.

As a DE for two districts there were numerous times I was asked to be on the district EBOR's and for me I considered it quite an honor and experience. IMO, unit level EBOR's lack any real luster or special quality. In my current council ALL EBOR's are done on a district level.

[NJCubScouter]

Eagle BOR's in our district are sort of a cross between the two methods that Beavah describes, and when I have read discussions in this forum of unit vs. district EBOR's, I have never been quite sure which category we fall into. Based on the fact that the EBOR has more unit members (2 or 3) than district people (1), I'm guessing it would technically be a "unit" BOR, but let's see what the forum thinks:

 

After the Scout gets his application signed off at the council office (the pre-BOR signoff, which must be done by the 18th birthday even though I don't think they are supposed to require that), the Scout calls the District Advancement Chair to make an appointment for his EBOR. The appointment is made for one of the twice-monthly EBOR sessions that are held in a central location in the district (although lately they have been rotating between two locations.) The DAC tells the candidate to inform his troop Advancement Coordinator/Chair (which at the moment would be me, which is how I know this directly) of the date and to ask (me) to arrange for two or three troop committee members (including myself if possible, which so far it has not been, so I haven't actually participated in any EBOR's myself, other than sitting in the "waiting room" during my son's EBOR) to attend and participate, and to also notify the Scoutmaster.

 

On the appointed evening, at the central location, there are several EBOR's going on at the same time. The membership of each one consists of a district advancement committee member as the CHAIR of the EBOR (not just a "guest"), and the two or three troop committee members. Prior to calling the candidate in, the board members (and the SM, if present) go over the Scout's advancement records (including merit badge cards, which the Scout is supposed to have brought) and the recommendation letters and make sure everything is in order. Then the candidate comes in, and my impression is that if all the records seem to be in order, the discussion is mostly about the Eagle project and future plans, and if there are issues with the advancement records, some time is spent on that. (They also offer a voluntary "pre-review" before the application is submitted (and therefore by definition before the 18th birthday, so there is time to actually deal with any "paperwork issues" before they become a potentially insurmountable problem). The pre-review is handled by a district person, who may not be the same district person who chairs the EBOR.) The EBOR (the part with the Scout in the room) seems to last 25-30 minutes.

 

So is that a "troop" BOR or a "district" BOR? It has aspects of both. It seems to be more on the "formal" side, but on the other hand, most of the people in the room are known to the Scout because they (we, in theory) are the same people who have been doing their BOR's since Tenderfoot, not to mention that they are (or in most cases, have been in the past) parents of other Scouts in the troop and have gone on camping trips, etc.

[Eagle69]

We use the Unit BOR. There is no retesting, the boards are usually a discussion around the Eagle Project, Scouting in general and the character of the boy.

 

I served as one of the District Eagle reviewers for a number of years, i.e. the guy from the District that shows up at the unit, and I don't ever recall anybody getting into retesting. If they had I would have gotten them back on track.

 

I think the Unit Level review with people that the boy knows and that know him is the way to do it.

[Basementdweller]

While I think that District level EBOR can become havens for the GOBC, I think it has the potential to be a superior experience for the youth.

 

if it is at the unit level....It is the same old folks doing the same old review....District is new and hopefully the folks are experienced......

 

Pretty cool stuff.

[fred8033]

I'd like to see our district change to unit EBORs.

 

Our district is large and does well but has trouble staffing the EBORs. It affects the quality of the EBORs. Our district has about 100 troops with an average of one or two eagles per troop per year. That coordinating time and place for 450 to 600 reviewers, 100 to 200 scouts and their scoutmasters. That's a lot of work.

 

Also they are a bit impersonal and ya get the feeling that most of the EBOR members are just trying to get through it. I myself can sit through one EBOR. Maybe two if it's a good set of adults that make it fun. By by the 3rd EBOR, I'm burnt out. It becomes a production mill.

 

Plus they usually get stuck in really small rooms that you can barely fit a small table and six chairs into and still be able to open the door.

 

I'd much rather see unit level EBORs. I could really see making them very special for the scouts involved. Have the scout escorted into the room. Make it both a review of his project and also a celebration and a reflection on their scouting career.

 

I'd say also confirming the requirements are done, but the council registrar does a really good job of that before the EBOR is approved to move forward already. Plus I've yet to see a district EBOR that does any type of check that the requirements are done. So unless the scout makes a big mistake, the district EBOR is pretty much an automatic move forward event.

 

I wish our district would move to unit EBORs. As the CC, I'd be glad to coordinate getting the district adv person to attend and to make it a very memorable event.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[Twocubdad]

We use unit boards with one district rep. I think it works well and out Scouts are well-served by the system. Boards are scheduled at everyone's convenience and the board members generally have watched the Eagle candidates grow up through the program for years. Yes, to a degree, the boards can become somewhat of a victory lap. But in some cases the board members have conducted previous boards with the Scouts. As such, they often follow through with issues and conversations over a matter of years. I think that gives them an insight with the Scout a board of strangers wouldn't have.

[Eagle92]

My EBOR was a unit one with 3 unit MCs and 2 district folks, the DAC and the former DAC, who actually signed off on my project 4 years prior. Thank goodness the former DAC was on the EBOR as the new DAC was quite upset that I didn't have his approval on any of my paperwork and wanted to refuse the Eagle as a result.

 

[moosetracker]

Have yet to see a unit EBOR, but I like our District EBORs.. Some of it now is because my husband/son enjoy being part of the District EBORs, but even when in the troop.. The boys felt it was something special and rose to the occasion, being well prepared with poster boards with pictures and a great presentation. Had it been the typical unit EBOR they would have just winged it preping for nothing.. The boys also have this great elated feeling of accomplishment when returning from the board feeling they did a wonderful job... Big difference between that and a small smile when passing the unit BOR as by the 2nd or 3rd rank they have figured out is basically a rubber stamp (or at least it takes a serious melt down to not get)..

 

I feel a little better there is someone from the District committee there, but it sounds like with some of you it doesn't have to be a person from advancement, it can just be someone with a District title who knows nothing about the Eagle board, which means just another warm body.

 

I am wondering how long some of you have had unit EBORs.. Is it a new progression? Or is it just the preference of the Council or District how their EBORs are run.. Like Eagle92 got his Eagle in the year 1992.. So his area has had unit EBORs for about 20 years or more..

 

Just hoping our little neck of the woods gets to stay the way it is, and doesn't get hit with this change.

[Beavah]

Yah, interestin'. Folks whose councils do unit-level EBORs prefer them, and folks with councils who do district-level EBORs mostly prefer those. My, we're a conservative lot!

 

Moosetracker, to answer your question da option has been available for a long time. Many decades. NJCubScouter's hybrid is a weird one and plays a bit fast and loose, but if it works, great.

 

Unit-level EBORs do tend to be different / bigger / a touch more formal than the usual T-L BORs done by the unit. Separate location, not at a meeting, district rep., different cast of characters with more community and senior scouter representation rather than just a couple of parents. The district reps are typically someone from the district advancement committee assigned by da chair of that committee, not a person-found-on-street. Dependin' on the unit's character and approach, eh? But you're right, yeh wouldn't see posterboards and powerpoints and such.

 

To my mind, that's a bonus. I'm not sure posterboards and powerpoints really have a place. More to the point, yeh get a fair bit of friction when the district EBORs (often old-boys-club fellows) have different expectations than then boy is used to at the unit. So if a unit prefers more of a relaxed family-feel and the district has a bunch of hard-cases who are expecting a professional powerpoint, that becomes a problem that can be unfair for a boy. That's also particularly true for lads who have struggled; unit folks will have a sense for how far the boy has come, but a district hard-case might only see a boy who is a bit tentative. That in turn requires a savvy SM to have a chat with the board members in advance, and not all newer SMs know to do that nor are all boards receptive to it. So from a council volunteer's perspective, district-level EBORs mean yeh have to fight a few more fires, deal with more ruffled feathers, and cope down the road with some ill-will that gets generated. Particularly when district advancement teams don't always do the best job of communicatin'.

 

Da biggest issue to my mind is that yeh don't get as much out of the district EBOR besides the hoop-jumped feel yeh describe, and that hoop-jumped feel is still there at most unit EBORs. I suppose it also depends on whether your unit has weakened things by creatin' a "rubber stamp" approach to regular unit BORs as well.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagledad]

>>Boards are scheduled at everyone's convenience and the board members generally have watched the Eagle candidates grow up through the program for years. Yes, to a degree, the boards can become somewhat of a victory lap. But in some cases the board members have conducted previous boards with the Scouts. As such, they often follow through with issues and conversations over a matter of years. I think that gives them an insight with the Scout a board of strangers wouldn't have.

[moosetracker]

When you say powerpoint that got a giggle.. one of the scouts from our troop did the powerpoint thing for the project review.. The board who are the same guys (with some varing as they normally run two split boards & have guests and visitors on the board).. They sat through and approved the project just fine, but asked the kid to go low tech when he came for his EBOR..

 

Maybe good old boys.. More like just older gentlemen, but they prefer the posterboard with a few pictures glued to it, and the workbook.. If the kid comes without posterboard oh.. well.. If they only get one copy of the workbook.. oh well.. The kid gets their full attention anyway.. I think the posterboards & such grow out of a few kids doing it.

 

I can see some troops giving the EBOR more clout if you are a more established troop.. I can see other troops that just survive not doing well at all.. Right now I can think of the one scout I worked with on his final merit badges before turning 18 so he just got his Eagle under the wire.. The troop is a mess! You look at this great scout, you look at the troop and think "How did this troop produce this scout?".. Well the troop was good years back when he got started, by the time they went downhill, the scout was in OA and got most of his adventure scouting in OA, while leadership was in the troop being the only older scout helping 11-13 year olds.. Ask him if he would have wanted his EBOR at unit level.. No Way..

 

Our old Troop is also spitting out its last round of scouts from an era of when it was good.. Scouts don't even want the current SM to do anything at their Eagle Court they keep calling back old SM's even though it is now 4 years into this guy being SM.. Do they want this current troops leaders to do their Eagle Board.. No..

 

Some troops probably can do an EBOR just fine. I am sure yours is one of them Beavah.. Sadly though there are alot of dysfunctional troops that still produce deserving Eagles who deserve a well run EBOR..