SM Sabatoges Eagle Project?

[echaney]

Has anyone heard of a SM that intentionally sabotages an Eagle Project?

 

That happened in our Troop basically because the SM always takes control of the boys projects, and one Scout fought to reclaim HIS project and as a result the SM pulled his support (according to 2011 BSA Guidelines to Advancement this is not to happen). The SM then went so far as to badger the Eagle Project sponsor until she got so frustrated she pulled her support 2 days before the project.

 

While taking the higher ground, the scout still completed the "project" and donated the end products to the school, as was originally planned. He did this not for the Eagle credit, but because in his opinion it is the right thing to do for the school/community. Now he is forced to complete another Eagle Project, which again he is good with because as he says "it is for the community".

 

Our local BSA council has been notified all along of this situation and is supporting the Scout, but the fact is the SM intentionally sabotaged the project and did other unspeakable things to the Scout. The charter organization is turning its back to the whole situation and the BSA council is doing nothing about the SM's actions.

 

I just want to know if this is a common occurrence? Thank you in advance for any insights.

[Second Class]

Never heard of that sort of thing.

 

This will be a self correcting problem, when the CC, COR, Chartering Organization, and Scoutmaster all find themselves with a troop with no scouts.

[fred8033]

IF the situation is as you said, quietly look at other troops now. Explain the situation as you just did. And if you can find a troop within a reasonable driving distance (hour ??), transfer troops and do it NOW.

 

https://beascout.scouting.org

 

[moosetracker]

Not common in the same way.. I don't know if I have heard of one being so controling that if he can't run the project, then he will put an end to the project..

 

Both parents & SM can mean well and ruin the project though, usually it is the scout not stepping up and telling them who is in charge that will kill it.. Example one of our scouts, had the SM question his project after numerous people from the troop told him it was run by his mother..

 

I suppose it is a done deal?.. No way that once the project was completed, the sponser changed their mind and signed the papers to it's completion?.. Well it says much for the boy to finish it, even if there was no way to right the wrong.

 

Two choices for this scout on the next project.. #1.. change troops (which may be hard so close to Eagle unless he is young and plans to continue scouting after project is completed).. #2.. Do a project where the SM is not invited to be involved at all. You may run the risk of him not signing the paperwork, but you can run without a SM signature.. You just need to explain why it is not present.) If he uses anyone from the troop do it by personal invitation and let them know they are being personally invited, so not to broadcast the invite the whole troop.. But with that he needs to find workers out of the troop, like a project for a church group, where members of the church help out.. Or does he have family & friends outside of scouting (an his handpicked personal scout friends), where he could run the project with them.. Perhaps if he is in OA, those in that group might help..

 

Normally people who would normally sit back and not get involved do so when they see a person getting an unfair playing field, they will step in even if from different groups..

 

Maybe not to the same effect, because this was publicized and yours will not be.. But locally here about 2 years back, one scout was very close to completing his project.. On the last day of his work, it was sabatoged by some cruel vandals.. When he went to start the project over again, he had so much offers to help, he had to turn some of the help away..

(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[shortridge]

If the project sponsor (the benefiting organization?) pulled support, how was the project done?

[echaney]

Unfortunately this story gets worse.

 

The SM kicked the Scout out of the Troop because in essence the boy was acting like a boy scout. The SM handpicked the CC and as such had a "secret vote" only including those registered CM that were in his corner to pass the vote. The rest of the CM knew nothing about the situation.

 

The scout and his family are currently looking for other Troops, and numerous other boys are leaving the Troop. My fear is a couple of the boys may become so frustrated they will leave scouting altogether. I am working with our local Council to attempt to convince these boys to remaining in scouting somewhere.

 

I am not making any of this up, and it is all well documented with our local Council as well as charter organization. The fact remains that in my opinion the SM is mentally unstable and as time goes by proves it more and more. Because of his great attitude, the Scout in question will be fine but there must be some way to get the SM removed before he hurts other boys.

 

To answer Shortridge's question, the scout quietly asked his friends, schoolmates, and other scouts to help him finish the project. A leader from Council is overseeing this process and is acting as his adviser. The sponsor will not sign off on the project, but the Scout is good with this because he knows the items he created are badly needed for the students of the elementary school, which was the intended beneficiary for the project.

[moosetracker]

I think what shortridge was asking was more to the point of if the sponser said "I don't want you to do this project anymore.. How did he do it.."

 

I would imagine you had several people at a school who would gladly take volunteer work, the boy just found someone who said they would oversee and sign off.. The signer person pulled, but the school still took the volunteer work..

 

different then if it is a small organization where when someone says "get off my property".. Then as since they are the head of the organization, you need to pack your bags and leave. Perhaps if your signer was the Principle this might apply.. But at a school, I would imagine you could have gotten someone else, like PTA or a teacher or a VP...

 

A troop self imploding due to the Adults not understanding they are not "Lord & Master".. That is a common thing.. Usually though not over an Eagle project..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[shortridge]

Go to the Chartered Organization Representative if you want the SM removed. I'd suggest just letting him do his thing and get as far away as you can. What's your role in the troop and relationship to the boy?

[SSScout]

How very sad.

Echaney: I hope you can bring this situation to the attention of the COR and IH. Make them understand. If there is more than a few other Scouts and parents of like mind, gather them and make your case as a group.

Legalistically speaking, I don't think the SM by himself can kick a boy out of Scouting. It takes the agreement of the WHOLE committee (what was the quorum? Oh. yes. Whoever shows up... another point to make to the IH and COR),and the IH and the COR Due process? Answering charges? Innocent until proven otherwise? And of what, exactly? And if I remember correctly, all that has to go thru the Council hands and National hands too. His name will be on the charter until rechartering time, too.

As to the project(s), I am glad to hear a "Council Leader" is aware and helping. The more this problem is heard of, the better.

 

I hear your passion. Give vent to it. Show this problem the light of day and make the SM answer to his self made situation.

[ScoutNut]

>>"there must be some way to get the SM removed before he hurts other boys."

[moosetracker]

What ScoutNut brings up is a question for discussion.

 

If person A, agrees to be the overseer of the project, then mid-way backs out, the project is completed, the org. accepts the project.. Why can't person B, who also represents the org, be the changed signee??

 

Like what if person A moved, or died or whatever???

 

I would imagine there is something, if some leader from Council (higher then your normal district overseer).. Is watching the process yet has not made the suggestion.

 

[bnelon44]

Here is what the Guide to Advancement says:

 

9.0.2.13 Evaluating the Project After Completion....

 

There may be instances where, upon its completion, the

unit leader or project benefi ciary chooses not to approve

a project. One or the other may determine modifications

were so material that the extent of service, or the impact

of the project, were insufficient to warrant approval. The

candidate may be requested to do more work or even

start over with another project. He may choose to meet

these requests, or he may decideif he believes his

completed project worthy and in complianceto complete

his Eagle Scout Rank application and submit his project

workbook without final approval. He must be granted a

board of review, should he request it.

 

 

 

 

[qwazse]

Never heard of anything this extreme. But keep in mind that your side of the story, no matter how much we agree with it, is only one side. The CO may very well take its good old time sorting it all out.

 

Find a troop or a crew where the boy will be supported and challenged.

[BSA24]

I recommend having a sit down with the key three in your district as well.

 

Committee Chair, Commissioner, and District Executive. They should be aware this happened. BSA may intervene and allow the boy to proceed to Eagle and write this up as his project.

 

There's many a scoutmaster that thinks he is the master, and then he finds out that national grants the award, not him.

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally, I find bnelon44's implicit recommendation to ask for a Board of Review to evaluate the project.

 

If the facts are provably as claimed, the Scout should not have to do another project. And in the process of reviewing the project, the Board of Review would necessarily have to consider the actions of the Scoutmaster.

 

Sometimes people make poor decisions. I recall making one in particular as Scoutmaster that I apologized for shortly after making it.

 

And sometimes people just have the wrong idea about how to do something in Scouting, which is what this sounds like. Very often unit leaders have ideas about how things should be done, and sometimes those ideas are wrong. We see that on this board rather commonly, and sometimes my bright ideas get shot down.