Board of Review

[SeattlePioneer]

As a recently appointed Unit Commissioner for a troop, I was asked to sit on a Board of Review for a Life Scout I don't know on Sunday along with two adults from the Troop Committee.

 

I've always been AS or SM when I've been a unit leader for a troop, so I haven't had occasion to sit on a BOR in my Scouter service, which began in 1981.

 

I'll have to read the BOR section in the SM Handbook.

 

Any other advice?

[infoscouter]

Well, unless they REALLY can't find another committee member, say 'No Thank You'. Boards of Review are meant to be conducted by members of the troop committee.

 

The Guide to Advancement says:

 

"8.0.0.3 Composition of the Board of Review

A board of review must consist of no fewer than three

members and no more than six. For further specifications,

see Particulars for Tenderfoot Through Life Ranks

(or Palms), 8.0.2.0, and Particulars for the Eagle Scout

Rank, 8.0.3.0. Unit leaders and assistants may not

serve on a board of review for a Scout in their own unit.

Parents or guardians may not serve on a board for their

son. The candidate or his parent(s) or guardian(s) shall

have no part in selecting any board of review members."

 

Later it goes on to say:

"The board is made up of three to six unit committee

membersno more and no less. In units with fewer

than three registered committee members available to

serve, it is permissible to use knowledgeable parents

(not those of the candidate) or other adults (registered

or not) who understand Boy Scoutings aims."

 

And rather than the SM Handbook (which is out of date on this topic), I'd direct you to the Guide to Advancement.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

 

However, as the UC I would think long and hard before agreeing to do this, not just because its the committee's responsibility, but also because of your role as a commissioner. You're supposed to be a neutral outside party. By inserting yourself into the troop's operations, you may lose that position.

 

Also (and maybe I'm being paranoid here) are they using you as an advancement stopper? What is the unit's motivation in asking you to sit on the board - do they perceive you as a "district guy that will set this kid straight"? Or, is the troop functioning so poorly that they can't round up three committee members? If its the latter, that's a legitimate commissioner concern. But serving as a substitute on a Board seems (to me) to be inserting oneself too closely into the life of the troop.

 

I tried to find something in the Commissioner Fieldbook to help, but I can't get it to load from the National Council site.

[dg98adams]

I'm a UC too for multiple levels (Cub/Troop/Crew), and as a "friend" of the unit I would not sit on any advancement related board for those units.

 

I would however, see what I could do to help train/recruit Comm. members and parents within the unit to get up to speed on staffing a BOR.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[SeattlePioneer]

They have two, but not three people available on a holiday weekend with the next meeting night (June 4th) scheduled to be a Court of Honor.

 

InfoScouter, your reference says who should NOT serve on a BOR, and I see nothing about Unit Commissioners listed. Indeed, apparently SM and AS can serve on Boards of Review as long as they aren't for their own unit.

 

I would say that the following cover my participation:

[SeattlePioneer]

Does anyone have any particularly good or thoughtful issues that might be raised at a LIFE BOR they would like to suggest?

 

I'd be glad to benefit from the experience of those who have a history of doing these boards.

[acco40]

Boards of Review for Tenderfoot through Life ranks should consist of not more than three and not more than six troop committee members - period. If you don't have three committee members - you can't be a troop! So I don't understand the new caveat that was added In units with fewer

than three registered committee members available to serve, it is permissible to use knowledgeable parents (not those of the candidate) or other adults (registered or not) who understand Boy Scoutings aims.

 

So, may you serve on the BOR as a unit commissioner for that unit? Only if you were a committee member for that unit too.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[SeattlePioneer]

Other Committee Members weren't available to serve at the BOR at the time it needed to be scheduled.

[BadenP]

SP

 

As others have already said your position as that units commissioner precludes you from sitting on any BOR/EBOR for that unit for ethical and professional reasons if nothing else. Your reasoning of it being a holiday weekend,or the CC asked you does not change the situation in any way. The way you seem to be skirting around the issue makes me think it is more of an ego thing than anything else.

 

(You could sit on an AHG BOR without any conflict of interest however, lol.)

[Lisabob]

Although I agree with the general consensus that this is not a good position for a UC to fill, the fact of the matter is that it is probably too late in the game for that advice.

 

So, to SP's actual question:

 

I would ask the boy about his experiences in the troop. What has he liked/what things has he seen or experienced that he thinks the troop can do better with? What role does he see himself playing, in helping to make the troop as good as it can be (possibly, but not necessarily addressing those weaknesses he pointed out in the initial question)?

 

What does he know now, as a Life candidate, that he didn't know as a Star candidate? (Always fun to see what they say to that one!)

 

Since he's presumably working toward Eagle, I might ask him what he admires about other youth leaders in the troop, or what he has figured out works for him as a youth leader? Flip that on its head - what has he tried or seen that he now realizes does NOT work in a leadership role?

 

What leadership positions has he held? What did he do? Which ones did he like or dislike, and why? Which ones seemed hard or easy for him? Are there any he'd like to do again, or would avoid like the plague in the future?

 

Ask him about outdoor stuff too. What recent campouts has he enjoyed/why? Does he plan to go to summer camp? (If he likes camp, then: has he ever thought about working at camp?) Is he in OA? What does he think about it? What does his OA chapter/lodge do, other than ordeal & brotherhood weekends?

 

What merit badges has he earned since he became Star rank? Did he enjoy them? Did he earn any outside of summer camp? What badges would he like to earn?

 

I wouldn't ask many questions that seem abstract or tricky (tell me what x part of the scout law or oath means to you...). Many boys at this age are simply very concrete thinkers. Either they won't be good at answering abstract questions, or they'll give you some made-up answer they think you want to hear - which is almost always obvious, and empty of meaning. Either way, a waste of time. Ask questions about the boy's real experiences and you'll learn far more about what and how he thinks.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Is this young man up against an 18th birthday deadline???

 

It couldn't possibly be scheduled a week or two later when the rest of the unit is available?????

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Excellent questions, Lisabob. Just what I was looking for!

 

 

Basement,

 

The BOR is scheduled for May 27th and the next Court of Honor for June 4th. The Committee Chair said the BOR would have to be Sunday if it was going to before the COH.

 

I hadn't confronted the issue of a UC sitting on a BOR before. I didn't consider it an issue.

 

I was asked by the CC if I could help out to make his program work better, and since I could, I agreed to do so. I have no idea how old the Scout is, but I have no reason to suppose he's up against aging out of the program.

 

If that makes it an "ego thing" as suggested by Baden P, help yourself!

[SeattlePioneer]

I thank infoscouter for presenting the most relevant information on the issue of who is eligible to sit on a Board of review in his earlier post.

 

I have considered the issues raised in posts, and my conclusion is that I'm eligible to serve on a BOR and this BOR in particular.

 

 

The general requirements to serve on a BOR are given as follows:

 

>>

 

 

Under the terms of this provision, I'm eligible to serve.

 

 

The second regulation that applies is as follows:

 

 

 

>>

 

 

As I described earlier, the Committee Chair found that he does not have three Committee Members available to serve on the BOR this Sunday, and he asked me to serve.

 

I see nothing in any of these rules that would preclude me serving.

 

When I've attended formal training on being a UC, I don't recall any trainer suggesting that UC weren't permitted to serve on a BOR. In attending every district committee meeting since 10/2004, the district advancement chair has never suggested UCs shouldn't serve on a BOR, and I've never heard the council Commissioner suggest that at the meetings and Council Commissioner Conferences I've attended.

 

Nor do I have any reason to think they MIGHT object, although that of course is a guess.

 

In short, I have to conclude that my friends here who have done me the favor of offering their counsel are mistaken, and have made the mistake of reading into the rules something that isn't there.

 

Secondarily, neither my district or council leaders have interpreted these rules in the way some have suggested to the best of my knowledge.

 

 

[12Laws]

While I think Lisabob's questions are perfect and sufficient, I am frequently tempted to ask at least one abstract or forward looking question. At this stage, the answers can be interesting. My favorite for Life is, "as you look forward to your future life, how do you think scouting will prove most meaningful and helpful?"

[dg98adams]

I believe no one ever posted there is a rule that you COULD not serve on a POR, we were only trying to let you know it's potentially not in the units or your best interest as that Units UC to do so. In fact, I think the general tone was to let you know who could serve so a suitable replacement could be found.

 

Will it blow up in your face, probably not.

 

Will the Scout be irreparably damaged because you served on his BOR, probably not. Most BOR's are "check marks and handshakes".

 

Will someone from the District spank you with a noodle, probably not.

 

Will you take the advise of possibly more experienced Unit Commissioners, also probably not, it appears.

 

Your primary role as a UC is to be a "friend to the unit", and if you define that Unit, to serve a temporary BOR member, then feel free.

 

Be for-warned, things that are "one time only" or "temporary" have a way of becoming "we have always done it that way" when related to the volunteer-run process that is local Scouting.

 

I wish you nothing but the best, and hope you continue to serve the "Unit" as best you can for as long as they will have you.

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[moosetracker]

I agree SP... Go and offer "friendly" service..

 

Barring if it is a UC or someone else outside of the committee.. I don't see the uproar over this issue.. I see the boards as being twofold.. 1) To allow the committee to view the health of the program. So by all means, a board should have committee on it.. 2) To get the boy scout comfortable with an interview process and/or being able to represent himself well under a board or panel.. Both of which he will face in life for job interviews, college interviews, possibly his job may require him to work with other corprate boards looking to buy his companies product. Or his job may have him have to present himself at a internal board to review either his planned proposal, or defend his chosen path after the fact..

 

Definatly don't hold a board without committee members present.. The Committee should never feel obligated or forced to put an "outsider" on the board, if they don't want him. But, if a Committee chooses to welcome a few outsiders into their boards.. I don't see this as a serious violation to the policy of conducting a BOR.

 

Can you argue the boy wont open up with the outsider.. Sure.. But, it is more likely that he is not opening up because of the people he knows on the board, the wife of the ASM who is always barking at them and on their case, or the father of the boy that is either a poor SPL or bully, or the CC who you know will report everything said in the BOR back to the SM, so it is just like complaining about the troop program directly with the SM sitting on the Board himself.

 

I agree with the fact people should follow the recommendation as to the tone of the BOR and not make it a harsh re-test of all the scout should know.. But, the fear of an outsider sitting on the board seems either like you are over-protecting the scout from having to deal with strangers, or that you fear an outsider may get a negative impression of your troop program by something the scout may say. Yet, if the scout makes it to an EBOR this is exactly what he or the troop will face.. Strangers not from the troop asking him about his time in scouts and what he enjoyed or did not enjoy from his scouting history.