Merit Badge Question

[Scoutfish]

At first, I would have definantly said that the MBC was adding to the requirements.

 

But after reading a few comments, I started looking at it from a different angle.

 

So here's my conclusion - which is the same as most everybody elses - but in my own words

 

1) As aMBC myself, I can choose who I want to work with. I may decide that I will only work with scouts who are working on Eagle rank. Maybe I will only work with those who are starting at Star.

 

My choice. I can say that you have to be Eagle candidate or Star candidate to have

[Beavah]

This is one of those cases where a seemingly reasonable "rule" actually holds back a Scout from advancement when there is no purpose to it.

 

Yah, or alternately the PF MB counselor is an expert in his field, has seen too many over-aggressive young athletes injure themselves in training by overdoin' it and not usin' proper form, and has decided the best way to teach boys well and keep 'em safe is to do biweekly meetings. Since he doesn't have infinite time he looks at all their schedules, sets a time, and expects 'em to live up to it. Somethin' like Trustworthy or Courteous or somesuch.

 

It's also possible da PF MB counselor has had experience with "entitlement scouts" from some troops before, and wants to protect his time. If there are 6 boys in the program, meetin' every 2 weeks over the 12 weeks of the badge, then one exception per boy doubles the time required of the counselor, eh? Add in a couple more conflicts here and there, band night, too much homework, got sick, etc. and it isn't long before da MBC is doin' triple duty and feeling taken advantage of. Seems like if yeh ask an adult to adjust his schedule to make time to help you with somethin', livin' up to your agreement is a reasonable thing to expect in terms of Scout Spirit, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[fred8033]

Scoutfish wrote: "But realize at this point, the SM can disapprove a MB card if the scout shows that he's not ready or dedicated enough to work on or complete the badge as it would be a waste of the MBC's time."

 

This is one that's not 100% clear. All the analysis I've read says no. Scoutmasters are not to use the approval process that way. That's not what the approval is for. Everything I've read about that approval refers the approval to be used for knowing what's going on, recommending merit badge counselors and essentially mini-SMCs. Not a point to judge whether a scout is ready to work on a badge. BSA does clearly state any registered scout can work on any merit badge at any time.

[Venividi]

Fred,

 

Could you share the criteria for providing approval that you have found in your analysis?

 

Personally, I think that if a SM doesn't take into consideration the readiness of a scout to work on a MB to get a meaningful experience out of it, then the direction for obtaining SM approval isn't worth anything. I find this supported in the Guide to Advancement, which says that everything done to advance should be designed to help the young person have an exciting and meaningful expereince.

 

 

Thanks,

VV

 

[Scoutfish]

Okay, let me rephrase that.

 

I am not saying that a SM can deny a scout from taking a MB, but it would be the duty of a SM to talk with the scout if he thinks it's an MB that the scout is not ready for, prepared to take or who does not quite get the magnatude of the requirements of the MB.

 

" I think that if a SM doesn't take into consideration the readiness of a scout to work on a MB to get a meaningful experience out of it, then the direction for obtaining SM approval isn't worth anything."

 

Yeah, but look at the other side of that coin: If the SM does take into account the scouts readiness, knows he isn't ready, but still has to sign off regardless of that, then why obtain the approval?

 

If he HAS to sign it, then it's just a wasted gesture with no actual meaning or worth. Just skip having a SM signoff.

[Second Class]

While it may be perfunctory, it is not useless.

Me signing the blue cards allows me to know who is working on what badge.

It gives me a chance to tell the scout my expectations; don't waste the MBC's time coming with one requirement completed.

For older scouts, especially;

Don't do a half hearted attempt, and put the MBC in the position of "if I don't pass him, he might not make Eagle".

That is neither fair to the MBC or to himself.

[Eagle732]

I'm a Canoeing MBC, I restrict those who I work with to scouts in my troop with Swimming MB or Mile Swim.

[fred8033]

Second Class wrote: "While it may be perfunctory, it is not useless. ...."

 

That's exactly as I learned it. It's not about scout readiness. (scout can work on any merit badge at any time) It's making sure the scoutmaster's included in the process, can coach the scout and guide the process. And, BSA doesn't even require scoutmaster approval all the time. For example, certain merit badge fairs, summer camps and special events such as Jamboree's don't require scoutmaster approval at all.

 

 

I had to read http://usscouts.org/factfiction/meritbadges.asp to realize it's the next paragraph the explains the approval.

 

GTA section 7.0.0.2 says "A unit leader should consider making more of the process than just providing an OK. The opportunity exists, then and there, to share in a young man's life. Preliminary merit badge discussions can lead to conversations about talents and interests, goal setting, and the concept of "challenge by choice." The benefits can be much like those of a well-done Scoutmaster conference."

 

I've never seen a scout not receive scoutmaster approval.

[Beavah]

scout can work on any merit badge at any time

 

Yah, I just love these blanket nonsensical statements. Of course this isn't true in the context in which it's being used. Most SCUBA MBs will require boys to be of a certain age, some MBs like Whitewater have prerequisite MBs that yeh must complete before beginning, etc.

 

Then there are facility restrictions which may limit things by age or rank or preparedness or just by signup and random assignment.

 

Generally speakin', most of the time for most boys, Scoutmaster's are only too happy to have a lad want to do a badge, and dutifully sign off and point the boy toward a counselor. But there is room for intelligent discretion, eh? Sometimes boys need to be counseled one way or another; sometimes a Scoutmaster knows a lad needs to have a "win" and so steers him toward a badge that will generate a "win" and away from one that won't. Other times the practicalities are such that it isn't fair to other boys to "take a slot" with a boy who is not prepared and will compromise the class for the rest of the group. Sometimes behavioral issues play a role.

 

Da Scouting program is not a computer program where adults are supposed to execute da instructions in order like some sort of oversized semiconductor that farts too much. We work with kids to help 'em grow. Sometimes in that process da proper thing to do is say "No, not yet".

 

Beavah

 

[Twocubdad]

But Mr. Beavah, Mr. Beavah! We have 1.5 million volunteers to control! Blanket, nonsensical statements are so much easier to administer than trusting all these volunteers who actually KNOW the Scouts to do the jobs with which they've been entrusted.

[John-in-KC]

My thoughts:

 

Like Beavah, I think it ok for a MBC to set a floor for who he/she will work with. The Scout has to demonstrate fundamental first aid (T-2-1) to move foreward anyway. Remember, the MBC is a volunteer too! Honor his reasonable requests.

 

I'm also ok if a Personal Fitness Counselor wants to meet with the Scout during the 3 months. The Merit Badge Program is as much about Adult Association as it is about Advancement. As long as the Counselor keeps YP in order (no one on one being the guiding rule here), it's according to Hoyle. To me, the Counselor is working to instill an ethic of commitment from the Scout. That's a good thing. Now, the part about if they miss it ... yeah, he's pushed the envelope of his discretion a tad too far. If the Scout leaves for a funeral, if his parents send him to basketball or music camp, and the 8 week visit falls just then. The guy needs to slip back a bit.

 

BTW, I'm the MB Counselor trainer for my District.

[acco40]

1) The merit badge counselors cited have done nothing incorrect.

 

2) "People are upset with the MBCs" - who cares? The Scoutmaster should be the only screening process for the troop wrt MBCs.

 

3) Yes, when a merit badge requirement states "tell", "demonstrate", "write", etc. the Scout should do exactly that - tell, demonstrate and write. Now, as a MBC I'd get gut feels for when a Scout met the requirement and when I thought possibly it was his mother that met the requirement! So, sometimes he'd show up with merit badge worksheets all filled out - typed - and I'd take them from him and repeat the requirement. For example, I was a MBC for coin collecting and I would ask the scout to explain these the following: obverse, reverse, reeding, clad, type set and date set without the aid of his worksheets. Some could not - they just wanted to read the worksheet. Was that adding to the requirements? Not in my opinion.

 

 

[fred8033]

Nonsensical? Amazing how committed scouters mock BSA key guiding statements. Sometimes these strong statements exist because experienced scouters have so much experience that they lack the ability to listen and learn.

 

Beavah - Much of your response is for exactly what the MBC SM approval is for. "Sometimes boys need to be counseled..." "and so steers him" Use the approval step to counsel and guide, but it's not really for a YES/NO stamp of approval. If a boy wants to work on a badge and won't take advice, let him. He'll learn his lesson when he tries to work with the MBC or tries to complete the requirements. It will be a learning experience for setting goals and taking advice. Discretion thru advice and coaching is the scoutmaster job. Dictatorship ... not so much.

 

I've seen the "No, not yet" scouters way too often. Usually, it's when scouters don't trust scouts to have their own scouting experience.

 

Perhaps this is a your troop versus my troop issue. Different troops. Different styles. Fine. I'm just glad I'm in my troop. I'll just smile at your troop and then go back to mine.

[Eagle92]

Fred,

 

Must respectfully disagree. There are alot of factors involved in letting a Scout take or not take a MB IMHO. And for some MBs with some Scouts, a SM needs to counsel and advise the scout not to take. And sometimes if the scout tries to ignore the SM, The SM does need to say, "No."

 

Take Swimming MB. If you know a scout is having problems, say just barely passing the swimm test. You may want to advise him to do instructional swim instead of taking the MB course that in all likelyhood he will fail. Especially if he is a scout who takes failure extremely hard like a few scouts I've met along the ways who had just crossed over. And I'd tell him point blank "No." If he was trying for Lifesaving MB as well. And yes I have met Scouts who thought they could pull off both Swimming and Lifesaving the same week of summer camp.

 

Pioneering may be another MB I would tell a new scout "No" to, advising him to focus on the T-2-1 pioneering skills and mastering them first before moving on.

 

In regards to the "Your Troop...My Troop,' maybe, maybe not. Or it may be based upon expereince dealing with scouts of different types of personalitities, and knowing your scouts and how they will react to failure. Again that's part of the counseling process.

 

But as I have said repeatedly, Scouting does provide a safety net for Scouts to fail and learn from it. And sometimes it is advantageous for them to try and fail. But sometimes it isn't. Knowing your scouts is the key.

[Eagle92]

EDITED: DRAT! The dreaded double post!(This message has been edited by eagle92)