Merit Badge Question

[ScouterCa]

I have a question about MBs. As I understand it, whether in rank or MB, no one can add or subtract from the requirements. I have come across two instances recently where people are upset with MB counselors and wonder what the "rules" are concerning these.

 

1. A First Aid MB counselor working with the troop restricted the scouts who could work on it to those above 1st Class. Although the requirements say to "Satisfy to the counselor that you have current knowledge of T-2-1 first-aid requirements", it doesn't seem to say that only First Class and above were allowed to earn this MB. This rule did not apply toward my scout as he was above that rank but quite a few scouts were upset by this. Especially when they have those rank items marked off in their books, but just haven't finished the swimming requirements in the middle of winter.

 

2. A Personal Fitness MB counselor insists that the scouts meet with him for the requirement 8 testing every two weeks even though the requirements says to record your results, just as in requirement 6 (which he also insists that they only allow him to run the testingz). Nowhere does it say that only the counselor can do the testing. He has repeatedly told them that they can only do the testing every two weeks with him and if they miss it, they will not be able to finish the badge. They are not allowed to do testing on their own, with another scout or adult, but only under his supervision. (I would have thought having the boys take responsibility for getting it done would have been preferred instead of babying them through it, but I suppose that is my opinion.)

 

I realize I'm on the outside looking in on these instances (I'm there but I haven't addressed them on this), but are these cases of the MB counselor "adding" to the requirements or is a MB counselor allowed to create "policy"? I have recently signed up to be a MB counselor for a few MBs and believed I could only expect exactly what is written in the requirements, no more, no less.

[Eagle92]

This is my $.02 worth.

 

1) An MBC can limit who he will work with. They can limit it to one particular troop, they can set age limits if they want, and they can select rank requirements. He's not adding to requirements, he's stating who he will work with.

 

2) Me personally I do not believe he is adding to the requirements. Gotta remember part of the MB process is working with adults. There may be a reason for it.

 

I'll give ya one. I was talking to a cycling MBC who would meet with the scouts, develop a plan with them, etc. He trusted them to do the work and he saw them on the final ride to check off their work and see them complete the MB. Long story short, he could tell when folks did and did not do they work they were suppose to do, even though they and their parents said they did it. Now he works all the requirements with them.

[Second Class]

Your merit badge Councilor's need retraining.

 

I wonder if both have older scouts that don't need these badges. I've seen a few times the "trail blazers"

for their son become roadblocks for others. Sad.

[ScouterCa]

Eagle 92: Thank for the $.02. That's why I posted. I imagine I'll get varied opinions.

 

Second Class: Thanks for your imput.

 

1. MBC has a grandson who received his First Aide MB as a Scout Rank (but not with him) so was surprised when I learned of that.

 

2. MBC has two sons in the troop (a new scout and a 1st Class) and as far as I know hasn't done any MBCing in the past.

 

I do have my opinion on things, but am relying on those of you who are more experienced than I to educate me.

[Beavah]

#1 This is a common rule that's put in place at some summer camps as well. Nuthin' wrong with it. Particularly if the MBC is workin' with a class or group, it's often necessary to control the class size, and doin' it by some measure of demonstrated rank is a good way to go. First Aid sometimes requires maturity, eh? A few immature lads can really slow down the rest of the group. So First Class also is a filter for Scout Spirit, too.

 

#2 Nuthin' wrong with that. In fact, I reckon the lads will get a lot more out of the badge that way. Exercise is work, and many boys need the "push" of regular check-in to help move 'em along. Also safer for the boys, because the counselor can correct poor form or technique before it leads to stress injuries.

 

Da actual Rules & Regulations of the BSA are what yeh should go by, ScouterCA. They instruct yeh that "All advancement procedures shall be administered under conditions that harmonize with the Aims and purposes of the Boy Scouts of America". In other words, yeh should use your discretion as a MB Counselor to do what yeh think best advances the lads in terms of character, fitness, and citizenship. The Rules & Regulations also specify that education is the basis of the advancement program, and that in Boy Scouting the standard is "proficiency in activities related to outdoor life, useful skills, and career exploration."

 

So da proper way to read the requirements is that yeh are to expect the boys to demonstrate proficiency in the skills represented by the requirements, not once-and-done. And the requirements are only the test items, eh? True proficiency requires other things. Knowin' how to splint a broken arm is useless unless yeh can recognize a broken arm. So a good MBC will make the boys demonstrate da requirements in context.

 

Down the road, a lad or his friends may truly need those skills, eh? Don't short change 'em.

 

Beavah

 

[Twocubdad]

I'd say both are within their discretion as counselors.

 

I really get tired of hearing "adding to the requirements" over every little instance of someone asking boys to put forth effort.

[fred8033]

IMHO, these are boundary cases. Though the MBC is not completely unreasonable, the MBC is definitely adding requirements. The MBC is the interpretter of the requirements. But the scout has the right to judge if the MBC is being fair ... and ... the scout has the right to find another MBC.

 

....

 

First Aid MB - When flooded with too many scouts wanting a merit badge, summer camps establish priority rules for who can get in. But that's different than requiring a scout to be of that rank. If the scout thinks the counselor is unfair, the scout can find another MBC. There are usually a good number of first aid MBC around. Most don't add the first class requirement. The key is that it's the scouts option.

 

What's funny is that many troops encourage scouts to earn the First Aid MB as soon as possible as it overlaps with T21 requirements. AND, first aid is an important skill to develop as soon as possible. Personally, unless I was flooded with scouts, I don't know why you'd ever tell a scout to wait to earn a first aid MB.

 

....

 

Personal Fitness MB - Requirements 7, 8 & 9 say to record the results; compare; analyze; and, discuss. *** IMHO ***, nothing says the MBC has to be there during any of the testing (pre, during or post). Though not entirely unreasonable, I generally don't like it when requirements are read to make it more difficult for the scout. "Whoops, you missed week four testing with me. Yeah, you did the testing at home last week and recorded the results as stated in the MB handbook, but that's not what I expect. You need to start over." I'd hope they'd just require re-testing at week four and face a one week delay. But the original post did say they "would not be able to finish the badge". And even then, it's the counselor not recognizing the scout for doing the requirement as written.

 

....

 

Sometimes it's a judgement call. A good MBC will help the scout learn and grow. A good scout will be flexible and see past small legalities. Though I cringe at the two examples, hopefully the scout can find common ground with the MBC and have a good experience. If not, find a different MBC.

 

 

 

 

[ScouterCa]

Beavah: Thanks for the imput.

 

#1 Yes, he whittled the class size down to 3 instead of the 7 or 8 that would have taken it if it didn't have that requirement. I wouldn't have thought that was too big of a class to learn it. (All three have dropped out because he doesn't meet with them. If they want to get tested on the info, he'll ask questions, then tell them to come back in two weeks if they want him to ask more questions, again and again. But that is a whole other issue..My son was one of the three who was actually in the class who decided to go elsewhere to find better & hands-on education. But that's off topic...) I was more interested where our boundries are as MBCs. I don't want to cross the line. Basically what I am hearing is that it is the MBCs perogative to only teach to a certain age or rank or whatever stipulation if he chooses.

 

#2 I was more asking about the fact that the merit badge counselor would "fail" the scout if he missed one of the sessions with him rather than allowing the scout to do it with another scout or adult. I was wondering if this was harsh or normal. I believe that the MBC should be there to teach and guide, but the scouts must do the hard work. It the MBC can't trust a scout to do the work, even for a short time, how can we trust them to do the patrol method, or certain scouts to sign off on lower ranks for scouts. Like I said, just trying to figure out where the line is in setting policy or boundries that aren't specifically written in the requirements.

 

Most of the MBCs I know or have observed don't usually have issues such as these. They basically educate the scouts and have the scouts provide proof of meeting the requirements and the proficiency of what they learned. It's up to the scouts to do the work themselves or they won't learn the material. I personally want to make sure they do the work, but I don't think that I have to hold their hand through the whole process, either. But maybe that is me.......(This message has been edited by ScouterCa)

[Venividi]

ScouterCA,

 

As a MB counselor, I've had scouts that were interested in the topic and after meeting with them to explain requirements and teach some first aid skills, would then spend a week or two working and practicing before our next meeting. I've also had scouts that after the same type of initial meeting would come back without having done anything. Scouts' expectation was that everything would be completed duing the sessions with the MB counselor. As scouts get older, they are more likely to be part of the first group.

 

 

My preference is for a group of 3 rather than a group of 7. The larger group makes it more school-like. With the larger group, there is more teaching and less mentoring and counseling. The scouts get more out of the MB and develop a better relationship with the counselor with 3 than with 7. Which is part of the intent of the MB program as described in BSA materials. Classroom type instruction is permitted, and overall, scouting appears to be going more and more that way. I suspect this is because many don't understand the benefits of the "soft skills" that can be developed through MB process when a scout arranges to meet with a counselor himself, rather than attending a class set up by someone else. After having counseled MB's both ways, I now turn down invitations to teach MB classes.

 

You are correct that the MB pamphlet does not state that only the counselor can do testing. That does not mean that he/she is adding to the requirements by expecting to meet with the scout every two weeks during the 12 week fitness program. That is completely reasonable. BSA assumes that MB counselors are adults of the right sort that harmonize with the aims of scouting, as Beavah described. It would be nice if the counselor had the flexibility to meet with each scout individually at a mutually agreeable time. Such flexibility is lost when conducting MB's in a group. Scouts should make every effort to meet the scheduled appointments; that is not too much to ask in consideration of the time that the volunteer is providing.

[Tampa Turtle]

I is always a judgement call. I am doing Emergency Prep with some boys.

 

"Prepare a personal emergency service pack for a mobilization call. Prepare a family kit (suitcase or waterproof box) for use by your family in case an emergency evacuation is needed. Explain the needs and uses of the contents."

 

The last MB counselor made them bring it in. I let them take a picture and show me them. I then make them talk about it. I can tell who did the work and who had "Mom" do it. I keep reminding me the intent of the requirement as well as the letter. The intent was to have them learn how to assemble one (and there are many kinds), have the family one for their preparedness, and they to have their bug out bag. It can be a fun discussion.

 

I wont be telling them to test the waterproofness of the container though I might do that as a demonstration at a meeting. I might encourage but not require certain things.

[dg98adams]

Also, I'd like to add a Scout doesn't "fail" any portion of a Merit Badge, rather, they can choose to earn it (complete it) or not" right up until they turn 18.

 

I think my son probably has 45-47 Merit Badges, and maybe a dozen he started and never got back to.... he's turning 17 this summer. I know there were some badges that spanned 2+ years and multiple Counselors.

 

[ScouterCa]

Fred - you basically hit the nail on the head, my question is about boundries and crossing the line.

 

The first instance is a non issue because the scouts have, on their own, decided to seek out a different MBC, and the ones who weren't in the class had to anyway. However, I was only curious about the one rule.

 

In the second instance, I am not aware of anyone having a problem with it (yet) but just was wondering about the rule that was set up. Since the MBC has all of the blue cards, he has the option of not signing any of the requirements off, even ones he knows were done, if his rule isn't followed. It's really not a "failing" as much as having to start all of the work over again under someone new if the scouts don't meet the MBC's requirement.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

>>"It's really not a "failing" as much as having to start all of the work over again under someone new if the scouts don't meet the MBC's requirement."

[Oak Tree]

My opinion is that both of these counselors are within their discretion as counselors.

 

A counselor can definitely decide whom he is willing to work with. A Scout can always ask for a different counselor.

 

A counselor can also decide what evidence he is willing to accept as proof that the requirements have been completed. My opinion is that being present for the testing is a reasonable way to have the Scout prove that he is completing the testing.

 

I do not believe that either of these is adding to the requirements.

 

I also agree with TwoCub - "I really get tired of hearing "adding to the requirements" over every little instance of someone asking boys to put forth effort. "

[CalicoPenn]

The concensus seems to be that these MBC's are interpreting things the way they see fit and that's ok.

 

It's being suggested that the FA-MBC might have decided Star and above only to limit "class" sizes. I disagree, I think this MBC would still apply the Star and above rule if it were just 2 lads who were second class Scouts. If I were SM, my first reaction after hearing that rule would be to find another FA-MBC to send the unit's lads to and not someone who is going to put an artificial barrier to my Scouts advancement progress. While not adding to the requirements, he is ignoring the rule that a Scout can work on any merit badge at any time without age or pre-requisite limitations, unless those limitations are specifically stated in the requirements of the badge. As Scoutmaster, it would be wrong to deny a Scout a blue card to work on the First Aid Merit Badge because he isn't at least Star. It's no less wrong for the MBC. You had three lads who "qualified" under this MBC's rules then dropped out because the counselor wasn't cutting it. I think that's the only real answer you need - the lads who missed out are better off now anyway - find a counselor who will accept any Scout.

 

As Scoutmaster, I'd find a different PF-MBC as well - not because his requirement that only he do the testing is particularly bad, but because he seems to have no flexibility in his rule and it comes across as miss a week, and you don't get the badge and have to start over. This is one of those cases where a seemingly reasonable "rule" actually holds back a Scout from advancement when there is no purpose to it.