A serious dilemma...

[moosetracker]

LisaBob & BadenP.. Great posts! I second both of those!

[Tampa Turtle]

Moose, I agree.

[Papadaddy]

In any event, did the "approved POR" meet the 6 month requirement?

[KC9DDI]

it is right around where you just assume it to be the same-old-same old and don't go into deep word for word reading, but rather skim it..

 

Sounds like a tough call, but I don't know: It's the most important, highest rank in Scouting, that you spend several years working towards. It represents an enormous investment of time and effort. It (should) represent a great deal of personal leadership, development and attention to detail. And you're only going to "skim" the requirements? I don't know if I would find that to be an acceptable response.

 

Fabs5342 - obviously you don't need to prove or convince us of anything, but if you'd like to use the forum as a sounding board to help prepare for a future conversation with your district or council advancement committees, it may be helpful to share a bit more information. If I were on the committee to review your appeal, I'd be interested to know:

 

1) Why didn't you serve in a troop leadership position?

2) Can you describe the summer camp project in a bit more detail? How long did it last for? How many hours per week or per month did you devote to it? What exactly was your role and responsibilities?

3) What were the circumstances of the conversation with your SM that led you to do this summer camp project in place of an official POR?

4) How much time elapsed between becoming a life scout and your 18th birthday.

 

Again, don't feel compelled to answer, but it may be useful to help prepare for the "real" conversation with your district/council committee.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, hello Fabs5342.

 

Well, first, I'll cast my vote for "if yeh wait until the last minute, yeh should read the requirements carefully yourself." From now on, and for the rest of your life. Don't expect some adult or college professor or boss to spoon feed you. Stand on your own feet.

 

Second, there is no appeal at this point. Yeh can, if you believe you have completed all of the requirements, request a Board of Review. If the outcome of that Board of Review is negative, you may appeal it.

 

You would have to decide if, in good conscience, yeh felt yeh actually had met the requirements in order to request that. I do not personally believe that any appeal is likely to be successful.

 

The third option is to request an extension of time. This is best if requested by or strongly supported in writing by your Scoutmaster and unit. Then yeh go off to college and join a local crew, convince 'em to elect you as an officer and finish up. I think this is unlikely, but possible.

 

Most likely yeh finish as Life Scout, with 7 great years and all kinds of skills under your belt. Those are the things that really count, eh? Not some tin badge yeh wear on kids' uniform.

 

Beavah

 

[5yearscouter]

I have a question for the original poster.

what does your scout book say are the requirements for eagle POR?

If your scoutmaster and your book both said that the assigned by scoutmaster alternative position could count for eagle, then I say 1. your troop needs to realize that you can't use the requirements in a book that is 7+ years old.

2. you might have a leg to stand on in an appeal.

 

if your book doesn't say that, the book you've been carrying around for 7+ years and should have read at least a couple times in there somewhere, then I think you can appeal but you probably won't win.

 

I see a lot of troops not realizing that requirements have changed and boys need to start their next rank with the new requirements.

[Tampa Turtle]

Fabs5342,

 

You can fight it but it is partially your responsibility. I have lost many opportunities because I failed to read the find print or really, really verify something, or be extra conservative in meeting requirements. So it is a life lesson. Life Scout, a real experienced Life Scout, is something to be proud of. I think Eagle is over-rated. Give me a man who knows how to tie some practical knots and make a proper fire without lighter fluid.

 

My advice is IF you appeal do not get all hung up in a blame game at others or yourself. Learn from it, be glad of your scouting career, and move on. Maybe years from now you can be a Life to Eagle counselor--either way it goes you know the importance of details.

 

If I may permit a story. I am a Diabetic and have to be very, very careful of what I eat. I have been burned many times by folks on the carbohydrate content of meals and gotten sick on campouts. So now I do not trust anyone with something so important--I always bring some backup food just in case. This saved me at Summer Camp when I requested special accommodation before hand, was told by both Camp Director and Dining Hall Director that was no problem, and was told on how to get "the Diabetic Meal" on the introductory day. First day in the Dining Hall I go to the special line, get to the front, and am told "we don't do that". There was no meal and they would not help me. But I had brought a back up.

 

Preparing yourself to meet all those deadlines and requirements are important. I missed going to the college of my choice because while I was ready to get the application mailed off I forgot to get a form notarized and I was out of time. I missed it the deadline and their were no appeals. It was a tough lesson. (On the bright side, the school I went to --solely on the basis of a later deadline--I met the future Mrs Turtle and got a very good education)

[Fabs5342]

Thanks for the responses guys, the help means a lot. I'm not in any way displeased with only making life scout (I guess we'll see though), and I recognize they are both great achievements. It's certainly a picture perfect life lesson I've already learned from. Would be nice though because my goal has always been to be an eagle scout like those at NASA.

[packsaddle]

I wish you the best of success. Your attitude on this is good and I think regardless of the outcome, you'll do fine as well.

[Oldscout448]

Fabs

While I cannot agree with the Beavah that the Eagle is" a tin badge yeh wear on a kids uniform" I'm fifty some and still wear mine on formal occasions (it's silver by the way), it is NOT the badge that makes you what you are. If I may be permitted a tale here- Some 40 years ago a old scoutmaster told a proud newly minted Eagle "What you have inside your shirt is vastly more important than any medal you could ever wear on the outside." I was just a tenderfoot then but that stuck with me, when it looked like I might not be awarded Eagle (a paperwork snafu)I decided if I could not be one on the outside, I would be one inside. I hope you make it, but if not wear your life badge with Pride, Honour, and don't let this eat you up with bitterness, (I was ready to roast a CC over a slow fire) as a Scouter I can tell you your SM is probably kicking himself several times a day over this. hard.

Oldscout

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Fabs,

 

Sorry you ran afoul of bad advice that may prevent you from receiving your Eagle.

 

You acted reasonably, so the rest of my post isn't intended as criticism of your actions. My intention is to explore one of the elements of Personal Management that people are well advised to learn and follow, although many adults never learn:

 

However much you think you are entitled to run up against the edge of deadlines and requirements, the smart move is to stay well away from the sharp edge of possible disaster.

 

The Personal Management Merit Badge discusses this some in one requirement:

 

a. Define the project. What is your goal?

b. Develop a timeline for your project that shows the steps you must take from beginning to completion.

c. Describe your project.

d. Develop a list of resources. Identify how these resources will help you achieve your goal.

 

When you are developing a timeline, the prudent thing to do is to stay well away from DEADlines. Because if you fall afoul of DEADlines for any reason, you are, well --- a dead duck.

 

This applies to lots of things, not just time. When driving a car, the way to avoid trouble is not to drive within the legal boundaries, but to drive WELL within the legal boundaries.

 

People imagine they can get involved in confrontations with people if they stay within the law --- but it's not at all unusual for things to get out of hand.

 

Usually you should be able to trust the advice of a Scoutmaster of the kind you received. But as it turns out, that was unwise.

 

Too live a life of permanent caution and prudence can be boring. But at a minimum, if you decide to venture out to the edge, you should realize that you are doing so and be doing it for a good reason and taking care to recognize the risks you are running.

 

This is wisdom I've usually learned the hard way.

[desertrat77]

Fabs, I'd recommend pursuing an appeal...either way it turns out, you won't wonder "what if" years down the road.

 

Frankly, I don't think the odds of an approval are great, given the clear guidance in the handbook, and the fact that there are a bunch of PORs to choose from, many of them not that demanding. But you never know--so pursue that appeal with all your might.

 

And if it doesn't go your way, please sign on to become an adult scouter when life calms down a bit after the transition to college. From what you've shared with us here, I'm sure there is a den, crew, pack, troop, or ship somewhere that would benefit from your leadership and experience. Many of the very best scouters I've served with over the years topped out at FC/Star/Life, so there is plenty more scouting ahead down the trail.

 

Best wishes, please keep us posted, and good luck in college!

 

 

[Engineer61]

Fabs,

 

Well, you've perhaps learned more "real life stuff" from not getting your Eagle than you did by doing all the work to get it.

 

1) Always question those in authority, at least in your own mind...openly if appropriate.

 

2) Do all of your own work. Even if it is a duplication of another person's efforts. The moment you depend on someone else to handle it all for you, you're at risk.

 

3) Accolades feel good, but they don't put food on the table. Are you any less of a person because you don't have that Eagle on a uniform that you'll likely not be wearing much anymore? Probably not.

 

Congratulations on getting into college....you've learned one trail, now it's time to move on to the next.

[Fabs5342]

So just a quick update: I made eagle scout! Just had my ceremony last week. My scoutmasters really went to bat for me and they all wrote about my qualification for eagle and my demonstration of leadership. As one put it "we made it very clear that the issue needed to be addressed." The local council granted me a b.o.r. and things went from there. Anyways, thanks for all the support on the forum, haha, never give up.

[Lisabob]

Congratulations! Glad to hear it worked out, and thank you for the update.