First class in first year - or not

[bnelon44]

Eagledad

 

Again the idea is to get them the tools so they can do the program which accomplishes the Aims. That's the purpose of the T2F requirements.

 

The goal is to achieve the Aims. That doesn't happen overnight. To keep them in the program so that can happen, you get them active right away. But Scouts who don't have the skills get frustrated and quit. It is the Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing model of team development. See:

http://bsatroop14.com/patrolmethod/MatchingLeadershipStylestotheNeedsofScouts.pdf

[Eagledad]

>>Again the idea is to get them the tools so they can do the program which accomplishes the Aims. That's the purpose of the T2F requirements.

[moosetracker]

Frustration comes in many forms.. But, I rarely see a scout frustrated because he is tenting in the woods at 2nd class rather then 1st class.. Once out in the woods he knows what he knows..

 

Doesn't matter if he is 2nd class in troop A, but can run rings around the 1st class scout in troop B..

 

Frustration can come if at 1st class if you are now expected to "know" and don't..

 

Frustration can come if your troop advances unfairly, giving some scouts a quick run up the ranks without knowing anything, while you are left behind and have done things 3 times over and know you know more.. (Could be frustration at the Idiot scouts at higher ranks, could be frustration at the unfair double standards of the troop.)

 

But if you know what you know, and are out in the woods with your buddies, and everyone in the troop is being advanced at a fair ranking system.. It does not matter what rank you are at sitting out in those woods.. Out in the woods, Rank will not matter.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmmm....

 

BNelon44, I have no idea what you're talkin' about. Leastways, it doesn't bear any relationship to the Scoutin' program that I know.

 

Again the idea is to get them the tools so they can do the program which accomplishes the Aims. That's the purpose of the T2F requirements.

 

No, that's not it at all. The purpose of the T21 requirements is to accomplish the Aims, not to give 'em the tools to accomplish the aims. Just like all of advancement and all of the other methods, eh? Each method helps accomplish da aims directly.

 

By learnin' about rights and responsibilities of citizenship for First Class boys grow in their citizenship. By doin' service work for 2nd class they grow in their citizenship. By learnin' about the flag and how to care for it, and learnin' the oath and law for Tenderfoot they grow in citizenship.

 

T21 isn't for "tools". It's for growth in character and fitness and citizenship directly. So there's no need to rush, eh? All of that development and learnin' that goes on through T21 is accomplishin' the Aims. The better job your troop does on those things, the better job they'll do accomplishin' the Aims.

 

It is the Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing model of team development.

 

Huh? No it isn't. Did yeh ever take training? Da model of team development doesn't have a lick to do with First Class First Year. It's about helpin' youth leaders servin' on the PLC or as leaders of their patrol, or adults who are workin' with those groups.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

If "First Class First Year" means that the troop has a program that gives Scouts the opportunity, through regular participation, to make First Class in 12-18 months, I think that's great. I would say that our troop's program meets that test. Our "time to First Class" has ranged from seven months to more than two years, and our average is probably about 15-16 months. For those who take longer than average, the most common reason is a lack of regular attendance at meetings and/or camping trips. So, they have the "opportunity" and some take advantage of it, and some don't. It's their choice.

 

And this is what I thought the BSA meant by FCFY, until fairly recently. However, I am getting the sense more and more that they really mean (or now mean) that a boy actually should be rushed along through the ranks. I quoted the language from the Guide to Advancement in another thread today, but I'll quote it again; it says the unit is supposed to "Establish practices that will bring each new Boy Scout to First Class rank within a year of joining, and then to Star rank the following year." Bring, it says. Not establish a program that will allow the boy to meet those milestones, but "bring" them. I have a problem with that. If the reason a Scout is not progressing "quickly enough" is that they miss half the meetings and camping trips, quite frankly that is their choice. Hopefully they are doing something productive like a sport or teaching themselves quantum physics, as opposed to just playing video games. But whatever they are doing, they are not doing Scouting, and they are not going to "learn their stuff" and advance through the ranks as quickly as someone who has a 95 percent attendance record.

 

So I'd really like to see the BSA go back to "my" version of First Class First Year -- assuming they were ever actually there, because they don't seem to be there now.

[JMHawkins]

Huh? No it isn't. Did yeh ever take training? Da model of team development doesn't have a lick to do with First Class First Year. It's about helpin' youth leaders servin' on the PLC or as leaders of their patrol, or adults who are workin' with those groups

 

Yeah, but if a troop is running New Scout Patrols, I can imagine how they might conflate FCFY and team formation dynamics. Since you're creating a "new team" every year with the new crop of Webelos instead of augmenting established (already normed) patrols, the adults might think the stormin', normin', underperformin' foofaloo applies to the new guys trying to learn all their FC stuff.