Pushing Boys Through by Short Cutting Requirments

[kidsntow]

I was just recently put over a Webelos den of three boys who all have birthdays coming up and have been told that they will be getting their Arrow of Light awards next month. I received the schedule and instructions from the former leader and have found that a lot of corners have been cut. Short cuts like doing a short hike around the neighborhood and counting it as a 3 mile hike. That sort of thing. So now I'm not sure what to do. The boys and the parents and the committee chair are all expecting the boys to advance. I don't have enough time to go and redo things before their birthdays.

 

I feel bad, especially because I don't think these boys have been given the experience they deserve. But I'm also relatively new (I was a wolf leader previously) and maybe my expectations are too high.

 

So do I just keep following the schedule I've been given and push them through?

 

What do you think?

[Scoutfish]

You are in a tricky spot for sure!

 

No doubt they "appear " to not have earned the Arrow of Light, and yes, it must be earned.

 

Giving it to them is an insult to those who have really earned it and also, giving it to them does not do them any favors at all.

 

But having said that...you cannot blame the boys.

 

The ideal thing to do here ( while using alot of tact) is to say: "Ooops! Mr/Mrs ( whatever the former DL's name was) misunderstood a few requirements for AoL.

 

Then explain that in keeping with scout spirit, you are going to quckly catch up by knocking out rthe requirements.

At this time, I wouldn't worry about or question wether they earned the Webelos rank or not, just worry about doing AoL right.

 

And if anybody asks you, just tell them that the requirements for AoL are just about exactly identical for joining a troop anyways.

 

It would only serve to embarass the former DL and possibly even the pack if these boys try to cross over to a troop without the real knowledge of the scout oath, motto, slogan, handshake, sign, salute, 12 points of the scout law, and outdoor code.

 

Do they know and understand what the names and different parts of the first class badge represent

 

Can they tie a square knot?

 

If not, they will have to demonstrate all of this before Earning the scout rank.

 

Again, this is stuff they were REQUIRED to know to earn the Arrow of light.

 

Good luck!

 

[dg98adams]

I agree, it's not the Webelos Fault.

 

I would concentrate on covering the demos, that's what the Troop will see.

 

http://www.boyscouttrail.com/webelos/boyscoutreqsaid.asp

 

Show your knowledge of the requirements to become a Boy Scout by doing all of these:

 

Req #2

 

Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the Scout Oath or Promise and the 12 points of the Scout Law. Tell how you have practiced them in your everyday life.

 

Give and explain the Scout motto, slogan, sign, salute, and handshake.

 

Understand the significance of the First Class Scout badge.

Describe its parts and tell what each stands for.

 

Tell how a Boy Scout uniform is different from a Webelos Scout uniform.

 

Tie the joining knot (square knot)

 

 

Ummm, It's been a while since I was CM/WDL, but where does a Webelos ever supposed to do a 3 mile hike? I looked thru Outdoorsman, and Fitness activity badges and didn't see it.

 

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[Scoutfish]

It's an Arrow of Light requirement: Your choice between a hike or camping as a den.

 

We did both at the same time.

 

Funny thing is, I would have swore on my paycheck that I read ( somewhere) that it had to be at least 3 miles, but I cannot find that specific distance in any literature anywhere!

[Basementdweller]

So what does their birthday have to do with receiving the AOL???????

 

 

There is plenty of time to complete it correctly.....June 1 is a long way off yet.

[kidsntow]

Thanks for your replies.

 

What the previous leader did was march the boys through a trail in our neighborhood, and counted that as both the "Day Hike" as required for AoL and also as the 3 mile hike option for Outdoorsman #9. It specifically says in the AoL that if the hike was used for Outdoorsman that you can't use it for AoL. I don't know if the previous leader didn't know this, or just didn't care.

 

I am taking the boys out on a shorter hike (for leave no trace) this next week and will count that for AoL, and then maybe try to do an additional requirement for Outdoorsman. It's not exactly a "day hike" but I think it's the best we can do for now.

 

I'll take the time to quiz the boys on the handshake, oath, etc. during our hike. Thanks for the suggestion to go over those things.

 

As far as to what their birthdays have to do with it, I am in a LDS unit and they advance boys with their age not their grade.

 

 

[Lisabob]

I realize you're under some time pressure, but I'd say, let them enjoy the hike for the sake of the hike - don't make it a quiz hike. Explore nature a bit instead. They'll have plenty of opportunity to learn the oath, etc. You don't want them to associate hiking with rote memorization!

 

 

[Eamonn]

Lord knows that when it comes down to the requirement being the requirement, I'm a real pain in the neck.

In my book you deserve a lot of praise and have earned my admiration, when you post:

"I feel bad, especially because I don't think these boys have been given the experience they deserve."

What I'm about to post might by many seem to be a cop out! But that is what it is.

You can only be responsible for what you do.

If another person (Leader) has signed off on the requirements as being met. Then you have to go with it. - You can't undo what has been done.

You don't have to condone it or agree with it. You don't ever have to allow it to lower the standards that you set.

But what's done is done and the best you can do is learn from it and move on.

Welcome to the forums and Good Luck.

Ea

[howarthe]

You might also try engaging the parents. If the parents don't care whether or not their boy earns the rank, then I wouldn't bother so much. If the parent does care, then they ought to be willing to help.

[ScoutNut]

BSA has a specific program layout to earn Webelos and AOL in one year. It is a pity the former leaders did not follow it, and were more interested in the giving the boys bling than having them actually earn an award.

 

There is a good possibility that the former Webelos leaders (and even the CC and CM) have never been fully trained. I suggest that you talk to the CC(Committee Chair) and CM(Cubmaster), and show them how the requirements have been gone around. Get their thoughts on how to proceed.

 

If they are adamant that the boys receive their AOL, then simply do the best you can, in the time you have left with each Webelos, to cover the requirements they are missing.

 

Hopefully, the folks running the 11 year old Scout program will do a better job of it.

[kd7kip]

I really hate to hear of this sort of thing.

 

Recent case in point: We were aiming to get my Tiger den their rank by the B&G dinner this year, but due to very wet weather we couldn't complete our hike in time. One of the parents suggested "Can't we just walk around the block and call it a hike?"

 

No. No we can't.

 

Last weekend the cubs completed their hike, had a ball, and they'll get their rank at the April pack meeting. Hopefully they learned: A-Rank has to be earned (even for Tigers), B-Scouting is fun, C-"Do you Best" applies to den leaders and parents, too.

 

I firmly believe when leaders half-a** Scouting, we shouldn't be surprised when we get a bunch of half-a**ed Scouts.

 

-Scott

[Scoutfish]

So let's crlarify something:

 

Are trhey already signed off on AoL by the former DL?

 

If so, go ahead and give it to them like Eamonn said. It's not really your place to back track at this point.

 

But if it isn't signed off, tell them that a scout is honest and trustworthy and that all of you are going to do it right!

 

Don't blast the old DM for not doing it right, just explain there was a mistake made.

 

Now, Basement brouight up the birthday thing. He's rigfht. Birthday has nothing to do with any of this. Unless they are about to turn 11 . At that point, they can join a troop right now without the AoL.

 

 

Was the age a "reach by" point? If so, that would explain why the former DL rushed things and did it half a**ed. If that was the case, you need to let the boys and parents know that a boy can join a troop at 11 years old or ( special circumstances) join at 10 if he has Earned the Arrow of light. Under Arrow of Light, you will see the specifics such as how long you have been active, what you have done with your den and other requirements for AoL.

 

 

BuI'd like to add one more thought to this, based on what I saw at my own pack/ son's Arrow of Light Crossover ceremony a week ago:

 

We invited 3 boys from another pack - who were joining the same troop - to come and be a part of our AoL ceremony as we had the OA coming and the OA dance team.

Wanted them to get the oppertunity to have a big shin dig for them too.

 

So anyways, while just going over some fine details before the ceremony, the emcee of the ceremony tells the boys how they will each say a part of the Scout Oath while lighting one of the candles.

 

So at that point, one of the boys from the other pack looks at the emcee and says:

 

"But we don't know the Boy Scout Oath!"

 

Then the emcee says :"You should know it, it's part of earning your AoL."

( he wasn't being mean or saying it in a snide way either)

 

So I look at the scout and ask: "Do you know the boy scout promise?"

 

And he then procedes to say the Boy Scout Oath without missing a single word.

 

Maybe he was nervous, maybe he just knew it as the promise instead of the oath?

 

Don't know.

 

One of our boy knows it by heart, but will go blank and get that deer in the headlights look if you surprise him by suddenly asking him to say it.

 

If he knows he is going to have to say it, he can say if forwards and backwards no problem. But surprise him, and he will fudge on the "friendly , courteous" part.

 

Just something to consider

[Lisabob]

Scoutfish, my understanding of the cub scouting program as used in LDS settings is that advancement from cubs to boy scouts (and within cubs, too) is strictly tied to age. Consequently, while this is not required by the BSA, it is a hard and fast feature of how most LDS packs and troops operate. (I'm sure someone will correct me, if I've misconstrued this.)

 

kidsntow, you can't undo what's already more or less a done deal (by your description). Work with what you can control, to improve these boys' preparedness for the next step in scouting.

[Stosh]

Cutting corners is about the fastest way I know of to totally embarrass the boys during their first year of scouting and causes many to drop out. They come into scouting thinking they are top dog with the AOL and find out that they aren't.

 

When I did Web II I spent a lot of time doing the pins and pushed them beyond their "requirements" so they matched the BSA T-FC equivalents. Just after they crossed over, they came prepared with all the knowledge of T requirements and passed them all with flying colors, but had to wait the 30 days to do the second half of the fitness requirement. They showed up properly packed for an overnighter, etc. and the SM was blown away when some of the more aggressive boys were almost at FC when it came time for summer camp. While earning the aquanaut pin, they passed the BSA swim test twice, did it for BSA advancement and were all swimmers at summer camp reading for the swimming MB. Same for Readyman pin, they did the Readyman requirements and then went on with the T-FC requirements too.

 

Was I breaking every rule in the BSA by adding to the Web II/AOL requirements? Sure, but out of the two dens I had 9 of the 11 boys Eagled. Was that my intent? No, the boys had a lot of fun, were heavy into esprit-de-corp in their NSP when they went on to their first spring camporee and took awards from boys that were a lot older than them. Was there any hazing of the NSP scouts? Nope, when they got the prizes the older boys focused on stepping up their game so as to be more competitive.

 

Their advancement was more of not wanting to let down their buddies than for personal gain.

 

95% of the process was promoted by the scouter leadership helping the boys succeed. For those years of Web II "training" the emphasis was on Be Prepared. They were and it showed.

 

People who find it necessary to do short-cuts to help the boys feel successful in the short run are not doing them any favors over the long haul.

 

Stosh

[ScoutNut]

As kidsntow stated he is in an LDS Pack, age has everything to do with it. As Lisa stated their program is tied directly to age, and not school grade. They utilize the BSA program as a component of their religious training programs.

 

LDS does not use the Tiger program. Boys begin Cub Scouts as a Wolf when they turn 8 years old (the youngest age they can be baptized). They become a Bear on their 9th birthday, and a Webelos on their 10th.

 

The Webelos program is one year only. On their 11th birthday they leave Cub Scouts to enter the 11 year old Scouting program.

 

On their 12th birthday they start the Priesthood program for Young Men and become Boy Scouts. At 14 they join a Varsity Team. At 16 they move into a Venturing Crew. On their 18th birthday they leave the Scouting program altogether.

 

The "birthday" kidsntow is referring to is their 11th birthday, when they must leave Webelos.

 

Since the AOL presentation is scheduled for next month, I am assuming that these three boys will all turn 11 within 1-2 months.

 

As has been stated, if AOL has been approved, there is not much you can do at this point but try to make the boys remaining time in the Webelos program the best it can be.