Lost handbook @ BOR

[Second Class]

So a scout presents himself ready for this Board of Review, sharp in uniform and sash. However, he's lost his handbook. Nowhere to be found. Hasn't scanned or xeroxed the advancement pages as we've requested many times.

 

What does your Troop do in a situation like this?

Hold the BOR without the book?

Send him off to look for his book?

What does the BOR do if he can't find the book?

Is it reasonable to tell the scout to start over on rand advancement he can't prove he did?

[dg98adams]

If the Troop does not incrementally keep records of each Scouts advancement (reconciling with the book) with say, Troop Master, then the only thing to do would be to have the SM sit down with the Scout and recreate as much of the advancement for the current rank as possible by discussing the material BEFORE the BOR.

 

If an advancement date can't be "recalled thru discussion", then the Scout needs to get it done before being sent to a BOR.

 

A SM should never send a Scout to a BOR that he is not ready for.

 

In the Troop I serve, Scouts are encouraged to get their advancements into the Troop Master record for this very reason (lost book). An ASM manages Troop Master, but the Scout is given opportunity to bring a book and get his info copied over before the meeting. Also, the PLC uses Troop Master individual advancement reports to plan the program.

 

IMHO

If A Scout lost his HB between the SM signing the SM conference in the HB and the BOR, then the BOR has nothing to sign so no BOR. possible.

 

 

 

[noname]

Be reasonable. Since you have asked in the past for xeroxes and such why is now different? Hold them accountable! In my field of work- if it isn't written then it never happened...

[perdidochas]

I'm Advancement chair of our troop. The above is why I tell the boys to come to me, and I will record their progress in Troopmaster. Things happen to books. My son washed his. Thankfully it was right after a rank advancement, and he had everything important recorded in Troopmaster.

 

IMHO, if the Scoutmaster approved of the BOR, I would presume that the Scout is ready. In our troop, the Scoutmaster won't approve the SMC unless he has seen the rest of the advancement.

[KC9DDI]

Which rank is this? Did he have the SMC already? Could his SM and PL vouch for him, that he did complete all of the requirements, and they have no reservations about him appearing before the BOR for whatever rank he's working on?

 

But, still sounds like there's some opportunity to work in a "teachable moment" about the importance of keeping track of one's handbook.

[Twocubdad]

No, you give the kid the benefit of the doubt. Especially if he's had his scoutmaster's conference and the SM and verify the requirements were completed. If your troop's BORs rely exclusively on the Scouts' handbooks, I would expect this would come up fairly often. They should know to pause the board and ask the SM to help verify the requirements.

 

If it is before the SMC, you help the boy recreate his records. If there are any secondary records, like TroopMaster or summer camp advancement reports, use them. Stuff like nights camping and activities are self evident. Many of the folks who originally signed off on the requirements should remember doing so and can sign again. If you get to the point there are requirements you just can't confirm, then the scout needs to repeat them. But if he knows the skill, it should just be a matter of demonstrating it again.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hand the boy a rope and see if he can tie a bowline...

[qwazse]

Let the BOR be a teachable moment.

 

You know that "Dogs love trucks!" commercial? Tell the boy "Scouts love paperwork!" But give him a reason based on the aims of scouting. Here's how I would do it ...

 

If he completed the requirements, he should be able to tell you who signed off on each and when. Obviously he's not going to remember everyone, unless they were all by his PL. But, I'd ask him to try, and you all fill out a chart of the requirements while patiently listening to him.

 

Then for the ones he forgot, you can ask "how do you think the person who signed off that requirement would feel if he knew you can't remember him helping you?" "If you make Eagle and want to thank the folks who helped you along the way, how are you going to remember who helped you earn this rank?"

"How much do you think this has to do with being courteous?" "How can we help you do a better job in the future?" "When you're a leader, how will you help other scouts avoid this mistake?"

 

Questions like that.

 

Is it reasonable to tell the scout to start over on rank advancement he can't prove he did?

 

It's not reasonable to tell the scout. It *is* very reasonable to ask him, "What should we do in this situation?" If he tells you to trust him, he's sure he did each req., then take him at his word. If he thinks he should demonstrate the requirement he doesn't remember doing, set up a way that he can do so quickly.

[Beavah]

Hiya Second Class!

 

Despite the fact that we adults seem to love playin' paperwork games (probably because we've gotten too slow to play real games ), that's not what scouting is about, eh?

 

Yeh follow the Golden Rule, and yeh treat him the way you'd want to be treated in such a case.

 

Yeh hold the Board of Review, and if you're satisfied he has developed the skills and character appropriate for the rank, you congratulate him and give him his patch.

 

Beavah

 

[ScoutNut]

BSA does not require a Scout to have a handbook. It is a handy tool, but NOT a REQUIREMENT. The necessary signature for a BOR is on the advancement report, not in a handbook.

 

A BOR should not be for flipping thru a handbook to verify checkmarks, or for retesting a Scout on his requirements.

 

If - "a scout presents himself ready for this Board of Review, sharp in uniform and sash" - then his SM and the Troop Advancement Chair obviously felt that he had completed his requirements and was ready for a BOR. A BOR for advancement should not be scheduled unless a Scout is ready for that step.

 

Unless the BOR members are newbies who know nothing of the Boy Scout program (and if that is the case why are they on a BOR), they should have at least an idea of what the requirements are for the rank the Scout is there for (being prepared goes for the BOR members as well).

 

Run a normal BOR.

 

Ask the Scout what he liked best about working on this rank. What camping trips he attended. Favorite meal he cooked. What camp gadget did he make. What was his POR. How did he feel he preformed in it. Would he like to hold that POR again. What service projects he participated in. How did he feel about them. How did he live by the Oath and Law. Etc, etc.

 

I would certainly NOT expect a Scout to remember the name of every person who signed off in his HB, and the date they signed it off. That is absurd. Most kids don't remember what they did that morning much less who signed what, when, months ago.

 

Teachable moment - yes. Ask the Scout how he plans on keeping track of things he has accomplished, and still needs/wants to accomplish at this point with no HB. Help him to discover ways to be better organized.

 

Support, encourage, teach.

 

Do not humiliate and punish.

[Twocubdad]

So, Scoutnut, your troop doesn't keep any record of completed requirements, just council advancement reports? How does that work? Does you Scoutmaster and advancement chairman have really remarkable memories or do you rely on the boys to let you know when they think they have the requirements completed? 'Cause if you're willing to tell the boy with the lost book "ohhh, don't worry about it you don't really need the sign-offs" then why don't you apply that to the everyone in the troop?

 

A lost book does not need to be a big, hairy deal. It probably happens twice a year in our troop -- usually the problem is the requirement pages fall out of the handbook. And I guarantee there are at least three "lost" handbooks floating around the Scout house now. But we're helpful and friendly and work with the boy to recreate the lost records. Still, there needs to be some level of accountability on the part of the boy, both for the lost book and for keeping up with his own advancement records routinely. That's not advancement protocol, that's just life.

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[OldGreyEagle]

I have to ask

 

If the scout had shown up with his book, but not "sharp in uniform and sash"

 

would the Board of Review been held?

[eisely]

I don't think it is unreasonable for a BOR to ask that records be recreated. There are many ways to go about this. Make it a positive learning experience, not punishment.

 

In our troop, the records that count are in Troopmaster. The Advancement Coordinator is present at almost every troop meeting so as to be able to record accomplishments into the record that the troop really relies upon. The boys are trained very early in their scouting careers to speak to the Advancement Coordinator early and often.

[Eagle92]

'Nut,

 

I don't remember where I read it or if it is still the case, but I remember reading once upon a time that the Scout's official Boy Scout Handbook IS the scout's official record of advancement.

 

When I had challenges with my records as a scout, I submitted a copy of my BSHB to the council office to clear things up. While my book was somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico by the time I did my EBOR, I had photocopies of those records, and folks signed off on them.

 

When one of my Scouts was being told that the council still had him listed as a First Class Scout after he passed his EBOR we submitted a copy of his BSHB as well as those copies of Advancement Reports that we had, which wasn't many. Council fixed it.

 

While the BSHB may not be required in the G2A at a BOR, the intials of the members and date of the BOR ARE (emphasis,not shouting) required as part of his records in the BSHB, so in reality the BSHB,or copies of the advancement section at a minimum, ARE required at BORs.

 

Now what I would do is, as others suggested use it as a teaching moment. Discuss some of the horror stories who have heard about missing paperwork, and how those records he lost are important. Move to explain how in life, if you don't keep track of records, it may come back to hurt you in a big way.

 

Outside of scouting, my transcripts from grad School the second go around were changed every single semester, and I can honestly say that after I still have no reasonable explanation as to why that kept happening despite the numerous calls and visits. BUT I can say that after being told I cannot graduate b/c my transcript said I hadn't taken a specific course yet, I had the copies of all my previous transcripts to show that I did indeed take the course, and that every single semester my transcript kept getting changed for no reason. So I was able to graduate with my 2nd masters.

 

But I don't think the president of the university system, university chancellor, acting registrar and the other 6 or 7 people I sen my very angry email to with the massive pdf file of my records liked me though

[ScoutNut]

The comment was made - >>"If A Scout lost his HB between the SM signing the SM conference in the HB and the BOR, then the BOR has nothing to sign so no BOR. possible."