How to define "activities" for Second Class and First Class

[Twocubdad]

Time out.

 

What policy has this Scoutmaster violated? Maybe this fellow simply has a conviction that service should be done for the sake of helping others. Maybe he sees getting "credit" for providing service somehow dimishes the service. Maybe that is the philosophy of the chartered organization?

 

We've had plenty of debates here over double dipping and who service projects may benefit. Before you start collecting feathers and heating he tar, it's worth a rational conversation.

 

Not that I agree with him, but I think you have to give the fellow the benefit. Advancement sign-off are his call.

 

 

ON THE OTHER HAND, let's do some math here, Lance. There is no activity requirement for Tenderfoot, so how is this preventing the guys from making rank? Even if the SM only counted campouts, how are boys not amassing five campouts in two years?

 

Are the opportunities to camp not there? What does your troop's program schedule look like. This weekend alone out troop has three different activities going on in which our Scouts could participate.

 

That's the issue. Counting service projects for activities is a red herring.

[Tampa Turtle]

I think that is BS. We have a prohibition on boys claiming credit for individual service (usually hitting boys doing HS Service, alter boys, and my son who works sundays at a soup kitchen). But if the boys are doing service as a Troop or Patrol and are identified as Troop X they should get credit. If the requirement was "10 campouts" it would say "10 campouts".

[jg2924]

Are the activities for First Class cumulative? My specific question is does the campout for Tenderfoot count towards the 5 for Second Class and do the 5 for Second Class count towards the 10 for First Class?

[qwazse]

Are the activities for First Class cumulative? My specific question is does the campout for Tenderfoot count towards the 5 for Second Class and do the 5 for Second Class count towards the 10 for First Class?

First and foremost, have your scout read the requirements and ask him what he thinks it means. Then do that.

 

But, just so you have it in the back of your head, the requirement is "Since joining, participate in 10 separate troop/patrol activities ..." So, yes, the overnight for tenderfoot counts for 2nd class, and the five activities for 2nd class count again for 1st class. If you think of it as activities per rank, it's kind of a nice progression of 1+4+5.

[Chadamus]

Are the activities for First Class cumulative? My specific question is does the campout for Tenderfoot count towards the 5 for Second Class and do the 5 for Second Class count towards the 10 for First Class?

 

jg, welcome to the forum!

 

Yes, the activities are cumulative whether not not they are an overnight campout.

However, a certain number of activties must be overnight campouts.

For Tenderfoot, campout one overnight.

For 2nd class, campout two more times to meet the requirement of three (count the one from Tenderfoot).

For 1st class, campout three more times to meet the requirement of six (count the one from Tenderfoot and the two from 2nd class).

 

I say campout as much as you can! 

[jg2924]

jg, welcome to the forum!

 

Yes, the activities are cumulative whether not not they are an overnight campout.

However, a certain number of activties must be overnight campouts.

For Tenderfoot, campout one overnight.

For 2nd class, campout two more times to meet the requirement of three (count the one from Tenderfoot).

For 1st class, campout three more times to meet the requirement of six (count the one from Tenderfoot and the two from 2nd class).

 

I say campout as much as you can! 

 

We will and do campout at least once a month as a troop. The way I read the requirements I felt it was a cumulative number since they allow you to do all 3 ranks at the same time. I was just wondering if I was interpreting it correctly. This is our first experience in Boy Scouts and it is way different than Cub Scouts.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[qwazse]

We will and do campout at least once a month as a troop. The way I read the requirements I felt it was a cumulative number since they allow you to do all 3 ranks at the same time. I was just wondering if I was interpreting it correctly. This is our first experience in Boy Scouts and it is way different than Cub Scouts.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

A straightforward read trumps most anything.

Note that in your son's book is a place where he should be recording his activities with his troop. (And he should do this on his own with minimal brow-beating from his folks. Remember: gentle nudges.) Of course it is as good a way as any for him to mark progress toward rank. But, it is really fun (should his book survive the rigors of his scouting career) to have something to pull off the shelf and remember what that first year of scouting was like!

 

Trust me, if he ever becomes an adult leader, it will be an "antique" some of his scouts will love to flip through!

[wdfa89]

Our troop follows if it is on the troop calendar, then it is a troop activity. from that we count everything but Troop meetings towards the requirements. Some council events make the calendar, but not all--just the ones we traditionally send a good sized contingent (usually travel as a troop, even U of Scouting and the like)

[fred johnson]

I'm glad to see earlier comments asking about the troop program.  IMHO, that's the right question.  Lack of participation is more often an issue of the troop program.  

 

I get worried with discussions like this ... because the discussion can easily reflect the wrong attitude and can reflect adults working their own agenda. 

 

Never hold hostage a scout's advancement.  As for which ones to count?  Don't be legalistic.  Have the scout tell you his list of activities.  If they seem reasonable first to the scout and secondly to you, then they count them.  

 

The key point is we need to keep advancement a positive experience and an exciting reward.  Advancement is not to be dangled in front of the scout to make him more active. 

[PrairieSM]

A few weeks ago, our troop had a fish fry.  It occurred on the same night as our regular troop meeting and started at the same time.  We didn't, however, follow our regular troop meeting agenda.  The scouts all brought a side dish that they prepared and used the kitchen at the church we meet at to clean and fry their own fish.  Families were invited to take part in the meal and the event took two hours when our regular meeting would normally be 90 minutes.  

 

There has been some discussion between our adult leaders and advancement chair as to whether this event should count as an "activity" or whether it is a regular troop meeting.  I'd be curious to hear how others would handle this contention.  It is of import because we have a scout with a disability which interferes with some of his ability to participate in highly physical outings and has had several surgeries when he has been out of commission for some time.

[NJCubScouter]

Welcome to the forums PrairieSM!

 

I would count it as an activity.

[Stosh]

If it didn't look like a scout meeting, didn't smell like a scout meeting, you didn't do scout meeting things, etc. then it doesn't sound like a scout meeting to me. 

[Tampa Turtle]

We have a Troop pot-luck around Thanksgiving and Christmas. We count it as a Troop activity as we interpret the requirement as encouraging Troop cohesion and camaraderie as well.

[qwazse]

....

There has been some discussion between our adult leaders and advancement chair as to whether this event should count as an "activity" or whether it is a regular troop meeting.  I'd be curious to hear how others would handle this contention.  It is of import because we have a scout with a disability which interferes with some of his ability to participate in highly physical outings and has had several surgeries when he has been out of commission for some time.

Let me suggest you advance this on two fronts:

 

1. Have the adults consult with the troop PLC about if this should count. After all, it is the SPL/PL who should be signing off on 1st class requirements, and if that's not the case now, you all should be moving in that direction. This isn't hard. The SM arranges some time with PL/PLC and the advancement chair. The AC then asks "Guys, I just want to know from you all, how I should record this. Read the requirement, and tell me what you think is fair."

 

2. Look beyond the participation requirements. Talk to your district or council advancement chair about how other requirements work for scouts with disabilities.The book already has instructions on doing this with the land navigation requirement, but I had to help this boy waive the swimming requirements. Paperwork is involved, and it requires agreement between the boy, his parents, and his physician, but my DAC was extremely helpful in outlining the steps to make it work.