SIgning Blue Cards

[Eagle732]

When is it appropriate for a Scout to have someone other that his SM (or one of his ASMs) do the initial Blue Card sign off and assignment of a Merit Badge Counselor?

When a Scout is at Jambo or Philmont?

How about the SM of a provisional troop at summer camp?

 

 

[eagle90]

I believe it is whomever is acting as the Scoutmaster at the time the card is needed. I know as Jamboree SM, I signed all the cards used at the Merit Badge Midway by my troop. I would think at High Adventure or provisional summer camp that would also be the case.

 

 

[Eagle732]

How about when the Scout is working at the local council camp?

[acco40]

When working, the Scout should be working. If a Scout knows he will be working, why can't he notify his troop SM in advance and take care of paperwork in advance?

[Eagle732]

Don't know especially when I live 5 minutes from the camp.

Questions were raised when a Scout comes back from working at our camp for 6 weeks with a dozen merit badges.

[shortridge]

Summer camp staff members are certainly allowed to earn merit badges. But IMHO, there should be a few general principles involved:

 

1. The badges they earn should not in any way interfere with their job. If he was hired as a Scoutcraft instructor, he shouldn't be spending half his day hanging out at the swimming pool earning Lifesaving. But if he's assigned to help a Pioneering MB counselor teach that badge, which he doesn't have, he certainly should have earned it by the end of the first week. If he worked out an arrangement with the Handicrafts director to stop by in the evenings when he's off and work on Woodcarving, that's perfectly kosher.

 

2. If he was a counselor-in-training, they're often encouraged to earn the MBs they assist with - but they should be helping teach topics as well, not just serving as a "senior student." Being able to earn the badges is kind of a perk of the job when you're not getting paid.

 

3. Two badges a week sounds like a lot, especially when you're supposed to be working full-time. But consider that some badges may have been worked on after-hours, during siestas, etc. The staff member lives and bunks with other staff members, and there are plenty of opportunities to get signed off on requirements.

 

4. The Scout should have gone to his SM before camp started - or certainly when he was home after that first week - told him of the great opportunity he had to work on a number of MBs, and asked for some blue cards. At the very least, he could have called the SM up and asked for the verbal OK.

 

All that said, there are perfectly legitimate reasons that the SM could have said "Errr, no. I'm not giving you the blue cards." If the camp has a reputation for being a MB mill, or if the SM knows that the counselors are not qualified (under 18), those are legit concerns. The SM is the gatekeeper here.

 

Eagle732 - I assume you're the SM. You can certainly object here if you have concerns about quality and whether the Scout did the work. I would contact the camp director immediately if you do.

 

Whether the camp director or staff allowed the Scout to skirt the MB approval process is a separate issue, and should be addressed separately. I wouldn't focus on that issue with the Scout - the senior staff probably told him "It's OK, we'll just sign that line for you," and he didn't think anything of it.

 

However - if the Scout really did complete all those badges, he shouldn't really have a problem demonstrating those skills over again to a non-camp counselor.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Oak Tree]

My answer would be that technically it is only ok when the Scoutmaster says it is ok. It is the Scoutmaster's responsibility to sign the card or to designate someone to sign on his behalf. I would expect it to be pro forma, but it would be good for whoever the leader is, at Jambo or at Philmont or at summer camp, to check with the Scoutmaster on any expectations.

[Eagle732]

I copied all the MB cards and presented it to the camp director who said the councilor signatures were legitimate. I did this after another one of my scouts who also worked at camp came to me with concerns.

 

I was just wondering for future reference when scouts go to a High adventure or as part of a provisional summer camp unit. Seems it's OK for the lead adult crew advisor or provisional SM to sign off.

[dg98adams]

The only thing you can do is confirm the person that signed the card COMPLETE is on that councils list of Approved counselors.

 

Otherwise, whoever is responsible for the Scout is the provisional leader and can approve starting a Merit Badge.

 

The local Scout office should have an up-to-date list that will confirm the Merit Badge counselor is approved.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[Twocubdad]

dg, do you know of any policy which supports that? I don't recall anything in writing, but I would always defer to the Scoutmaster of the troop in which the Scout has his primary registration. I would think the unit which will award the merit badge should be the one involved in process start to finish. Philmont crews, summer camp staffs and jamboree troops don't award merit badges -- the Scouts' year-round troops do. That's where the process should reside. Do you think is appropriate for a provisional Scoutmaster to conduct a Scoutmaster conference? Sign an Eagle application? At our camp, even in the T-2-1 program, the program staff doesn't sign off on T-2-1 requirements but reports back to the full-time Scoutmaster what the Scout has accomplished. The SM can accept those requirements as complete or can ask the Scout to demonstrate the skills again.

 

In the situation you describe, E732, the Scout's home Scoutmaster should be authorizing blue cards before the Scout begins working on the badge. I don't see where serving on camp staff changes that rule. If the kid wants to work on a MB, there is no reason he can't think through the process in sufficient time to get a blue card from his SM. If you are going to Philmont, it is totally forseeable that you may have the opportunity to work on backpacking merit badge. No reason a Scout can get the blue card from his regular SM before leaving.

 

I don't recall if the Jamboree merit badge form had a space for SM pre-approval or not. I don't think so. I know we, as jamboree SMs, were not involved in the MB process at all, signing either in advance of taking a class and certainly Not after. Our instructions to the boys in our jambo troop was they needed to discuss it with their "real" SM and get his okay.

 

For the boys going to jamboree from my "real" troop, I asked them to follow the same guidelines for MBs we have for summer camp, that is, we don't allow our guys to get certain required MBs at camp, like Communications, Personal Fitness or Management or the citizenship MB. But, if they had an opportunity to take one of those MBs with some really cool, like Communications with Tom Brokow or Personal Management with Warren Buffet, then go for it. But even in that case to please do me the favor of reviewing their work and getting a blue card signed off by one of our locally-registered counselors.

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[John-in-KC]

My two cents:

 

The process still begins with the Scout/Venturer's SM/Adv and the boy talking about a desired skill. If the boy is inside his local Council, it's only Courteous for him to touch base with his SM over the phone.

 

If you want to be borderline chicken**** about it, talk to your DAC. Bluntly say the camp did not follow MB starting procedures and you will not recognize the MBs. Let the DAC have some exciting times.

 

How's about, instead, having a long SM Conference with the boy, talking about going behind the boss' back. Here, it's only some bits of cloth. He does this runaround in the workforce, and he'll be hunting for a new job...

[Eagle732]

Since this has happened I have been very strict with issuing Blue Cards, making sure they are signed before work is done and assigning MBCs.

I appreciate the information on who signs the BCs under those special circumstances.

[fred8033]

Ya know I'd give the scout the benefit of the doubt here.

 

#1 Working camp is more like volunteer service than a high paying job. Usually, the scouts earn much less than minimum wage. Plus, there is often plenty of down time and/or waiting time. A driven scout could easily get done several merit badges a week. I know when my son became camp staff, he also got registered in that camp's crew with the camp ranger as the crew adviser.

 

#2 The reason for the SM signature on the blue card is #1 to make sure the scout has a qualified instructor and #2 to know what's going on with the scout. Okay, so ya didn't get the opportunity to get grow in knowledge about the scout. It's an opportunity lost. Water over the dam. Now what? Per what you wrote, the camp director said he took the MB from registered MB instructors and received their signature.

 

--- Option - When he gets the badges, he has a good story to share and can motivate other scouts to earn MB and work as camp staff.

 

--- Option - If he somehow doesn't get them, his hard work will be thrown away and it's a lesson in why even try.

 

#3 For Jamboree, they sent a letter announcing which merit badges the scouts had earned. There wasn't really a question of accepting them or not. Plus, his Jamboree SM was his SM for that time. It wasn't really a pretend situation. Essentially, the scouts had their long term SM and their Jamboree SM. There was no difference for advancement. Though it is hard to be active in a jamboree troop for four or six months. Maybe serve in a POR for four or six months...

 

....

 

dg98adams ... Agreed with what he wrote. The camp ranger / director can be viewed as the provisional leader of the scout. And the scout was essentially in a six week merit badge midway.

 

I know at my son's camp, the camp director AND camp range would have chewed their ##### off if they were slacking off chasing merit badges. If the camp director supports the scout, I'm impressed with the scout. He's motivated and driven. I'd be much more impressed with his MBs than those from say a MB Saturday event.

 

....

 

My recommendation ... #1 congratulate him and #2 ask him to call you the next time, out of courtesy.

 

(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[Oak Tree]

I agree with Fred on how I would handle this in a real life situation.

 

I disagree, though, that the Jamboree Scoutmaster is equivalent to the actual unit leader. I also disagree with those who say that a provisional SM is fine, or that a Philmont trek leader is fine (in the sense of being automatically approved.)

 

Again, I'm going to handle this in a reasonable way with any Scout, but the rules are pretty clearly laid out if you're going to go by the letter of the law.Though a few merit badges may have certain restrictions; short of them, any registered Scout may work on any of

them at any time, as long as he has the approval of his unit leader.[emphasis mine] This is indicated by his or her signature on the Application for Merit Badge, No. 34124, commonly called the blue card. Although it is the Scoutmasters responsibility, for example, to see that a counselor is identified from those approved and made available, the Scout may have one in mind with whom he would like to work. He may also want to take advantage of opportunities at merit badge fairs or midways, or at rock-climbing gyms or whitewater rafting trips that provide merit badge instruction. This is acceptable, but the unit leader should still consider the recommendation and approve it if it is appropriate.In the Advancement in Camp Settings section, it says that camps should have procedures in place includingCommunication plans to build awareness of camp practices, such as those related to scheduling, prerequisites, Scoutmaster approvals, paperwork, etc

There is no indication anywhere that this responsibility automatically transfers to anyone other than the unit leader.

 

Note that the term "unit leader" is a precisely-defined term in Scouting: "unit leader The adult leader of a unit is a Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Coach, Advisor, or Skipper."

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Scouts must be registered and YPT and safety considerations must be addressed.

Those are tedious, but valid concerns.

Records must be recorded and administration administered.

Blue Cards are part of a system to help do that and Scouts are courteous and helpful when they make that recording and administering easier.

 

But beyond those considerations, when an SM starts considering whether he personally "approves" the scout as being "ready" for an MB, or judges him to be "mature" enough, or thinks its the "right time" for that Scout to start the MB.... we may hear the whop-whop-whop blades of Helicopter-Scouterism hovering over the troop to ensure everything goes just-so.

 

When they think parents or other adults are meddling, the Helicopter Scouters' battle-cry is "Boy Leadership! Don't interfere with MY (oops, I mean the boys') troop! Let them decide and do... even if it means making mistakes." But if a boy shows leadership and initiative in starting an MB... suddenly the Helicopter Scouter thinks it's within an adult's (specifically HIS) reasonable purview to "disapprove" if he thinks the boy isn't "ready," or is too junior in rank, or wants to use a registered counselor the Scout knows (maybe a relative or parent - imagine! the effrontery! why... they might cheat!) rather the unknown person the SM prefers for him. The SM goes beyond YPT, safety, registration, any published pre-reqs, and basic program issues, he wants to judge personally if the boy is "ready." And rather than being ready and able to assign MBCs to boys who don't know any, the SM wants to dictate MBCs to boys who can find qualified ones on their own. Where did Boy Leadership go?

 

What we afraid of... that the boy will somehow diminish the award by earning it? Lighten up Francis... we're talking MB, not Ranger Tab, or PhD. What? You want to see the kid's GRE scores before you have the dean of the Personal Management MB faculty interview him to see if he'll accept the kid into his program?

 

That signature block isn't asking the Unit Leader for that kind of "approval." The signature is simply affirming that the boy "is a registered Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or Venturer (with boxes to check as applicable) of (fill in the Troop, team, crew, or ship), in District (fill in blank), Council (fill in blank) and is qualified to begin working for merit badge noted on the reverve side."

 

The words "and is qualified" on the card might excite the imaginations of helicopter scouters who wish to judge and dictate more qualifications than the card mentions or than are specifically listed as pre-reqs for the MB. And the Helicopter Scouter's attorney might ask the jury to examine the Scoutmaster's Handbook (page 127 in the 2010 printing) where it reads "a scout may work on any merit badge at any time, assuming they have the approval of their Scoutmaster."

 

"Quote the published guidance" is a fair game and probably a good one. But there's other published guidance out there that leads one to believe a scout can earn any MB any time... one wonders... aside from safety, registration, or YPT issues, why would a Scouter disapprove a boy to start an MB? Scouters who want to be very restrictive about that, are innovative. Advances like the helicopter, and helicopter scouting require such innovation.