Eagle Candidate using raised funds to feed workcrew

[Scoutfish]

I'm somewhere in the middle.

 

I see it like any kind of job or project budget: You figure all costs involved. Usually, you are figuring the cost of hiring people. Of course, in this case, you are not paying the volunteers to work. But providing food as a an incentive for the volunteers is a normal idea. Or, they leave and you lose at least an hour if not more dependinmg if they go home to eat, sit down at a restaur ant, just hit the closest drive through or bring their own lunch.

 

Of course, if you make it a part of your budget, and list it as an expense and you go over all of this with the beneficiary, then it's covered.

 

I would not endorse using the money on the wy home after work on the project is finished or just finished for the day , since you are going home and the worl session is over.

 

But I wouild think it acceptable for paying for a simple lunch or a cooler full of bottled water or gatoraid.

 

No steak dinners or anything fancy, pizza, hot dogs or a burger from Mickey D's would be okay.

[Twocubdad]

Eagle Projects are usually pretty well defined.

 

If he is concerned enough to ask, Mr. Jones will be told Jimmy is building six benches and Mr. Jones donation will go toward the total project of building benches. If Jimmy and Mr. Smith, the park superintendent, agree that providing lunch for Jimmy's volunteers is a reasonable part of the bench project, then they include pizzas in their budget. But at the end of the day, Jimmy will complete the six benches as promised, pizza or not.

 

Now if Jimmy wants to take all his buddies out for a steak dinner at Morton's two weeks later, to celebrate finishing the project, then I'd call that an unreasonable expense. But if I've got a bunch of folks volunteering their day to help me, I don't think it unreasonable to provide lunch, or drinks and a snack if it's part of a day.

 

And I guarantee you that even springing for a few pizzas, Jimmy's Eagle project have a smaller percentage of overhead than any other charitable contribution that Mr. Jones makes all year.

 

Another point, and this may just be how projects are typically run in these parts, few Scout get out-right cash donations for their projects. We do have a few places who always provide materials at cost (even pizzas!), but by and large, most Scouts EARN the money for their projects by selling discount book, doughnuts or washing cars. Many boys fund their projects from their own savings and/or earnings from a part-time job. And of course parents often kick in a good bit. My deal with my sons has been to set a fundraising goal and split any short-fall 50/50 with him.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[FScouter]

Consider it fuel for the engines used to do the work.

[Eagle92]

Agree with Fred 110% I also agree with whomever said the Scout should be responsible and not his parents. Kinda sad when a Scouter comments that parents should pay their son's way. GBB must be turning over in his grave.

 

Joe,

 

Agree, only 25 pizzas for 50 scouts?

 

Base,

 

I can see your point to a degree because I too was thinking "huh." But then I remembered how organizations will thank their volunteers by providing food while they are working, or "treat" them to a meal as a thank you. I know with UW, I have gone to a working breakfast meeting that they provided, and the hospital has a banquet every year to thank our volunteers. So a few pizzas to the guys doing a project is OK with me.

 

 

But only 25

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmmm....

 

That's two people in da space of a week who are gettin' the same odd advice from a district. Eagle732, are yeh in the same district as raisninemright? If not, I wonder if some well-meaning but not very bright person somewhere has written or posted somethin' that will start another 10-year-long nationwide urban legend.

 

Of course a good leader will take care of his workers. Water and drinks in the heat, hot drinks in the cold, food for hard labor, first aid at the ready. Be prepared.

 

Now raisinemright, while this is another district silliness, this is your boy's fight to fight, eh? You don't have any "case" to make. Don't take the experience of handlin' bureaucratic foolishness away from your son. It's an important part of life, and a good lesson for him to learn. You trustin' him to handle it on his own in his eyes is you recognizing him as a man. You makin' his case for him in his eyes is you telling him he's not good enough to handle things himself. Offer suggestions if he asks, otherwise, let his Eagle project be truly his Eagle Project. Struggles and all.

 

Beavah

 

[Basementdweller]

Donated moneys are a funny thing.......

 

I know that if I donated money for an Eagle project and found that Donated money was spent on food I would be mad. I don't buy into the whole food for the engine nonsense or rewarding the boys who worked.

 

 

I would not permit my son to spend donated moneys on pizza for his friends, I would pay for them out of my pocket. While many on this board seem to feel it is just another cost of doing the project, I disagree.

 

 

But I forget, we are now a society of instant rewards.......The Eagle candidates would rather just buy the group pizza instead of feeling obligated to help the others who helped him on his project.

 

 

Sure a pizza party after the project is nice, I just don't feel it is proper to spend donated money on it.

 

While many of you don't care about the boys who will follow yours, it makes it much harder to get donations or discounts when the public here's about this sort of abuse.

 

Working with an Eagle candidate now and trying to figure out how to pay for his materials.....Donations are non-exsistant and discounts are very hard to come by.

 

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[lrsap]

BD I agree and disagree. I totally agree that an "After Project Party" is pushing the envelope way past the scope of what the donations should be used for. Want to say thank you afterward? Host a cookout or something on your dime. It's a nice thing to do, and proper socially. But to say it should be part of the budget is to suggest the volunteers should expect it, and that's wrong in my book.

 

I also agree that if a Scout came to me requesting funds for materials needed to make park benches, bird houses, whatever, and then I hear the money also went to the feeding of the crew, I might feel a little odd about that.

 

Where we disagree is that the idea of feeding a crew while they are working is a bad thing to put into the budget. To me it would be the same as putting gloves and sunscreen in the budget to make sure the well-being of the crew is taken into account.

 

I believe the answer for both of us is for the Scout requesting funds present an itemized budget to everyone he asks. He may not know to the dime how much everything will cost, but there should be no problem calling the local pizza shop to see how much those magical 25 pizzas that feed 50 Scouts will cost. Then, up front the one being asked to donate knows that part of their contribution will go to the $200 food cost. That way there are no surprises and no legitimate after-the-fact complaining.

[Lisabob]

In thinking about this some more, I think what annoys me is the assumption about people's economic situations inherent in how the presenter framed things. That all parents have the extra cash to shell out for 25 pizzas and won't hardly notice it. What world does this guy live in? Does he *want* scouting to be the domain of the well-off (more than it already is)?

 

Perhaps the presenter might frame things differently, pointing out that using donations for pizza without the donor's prior knowledge could make an unfavorable impression on donors. Perhaps suggest that the boy's budget (food/drinks, etc. included) be shared with potential donors. Perhaps discuss the importance of appearances and the "feel good" factor, in encouraging donor support for future projects. Those are all messages that could make some sense, although they are not (to my knowledge) formal rules and they should not be presented as such.

 

It just irks the heck out of me that instead, this presenter made such short-sighted assumptions about all scouting families' economic situations. And that his comment, if accepted as gospel by those who know less about scouting and assume that a person in his position must know what he's talking about, could become a de facto barrier to a young man even trying to earn Eagle. I never want to hear "no I didn't work toward Eagle because my family couldn't afford it."

 

 

 

 

[perdidochas]

I'm basically in agreement with lrsap. I do agree that paying for a pizza party afterwards shouldn't be part of the donation, but feeding/hydrating the crew in the middle of the work day should be.

[Basementdweller]

Ah, A written budget plan shared with potential cash donors makes me feel better about it.

 

List of materials and include lunch for volunteers.

 

 

sure, Full disclosure. I don't think anyone would object. But just doing it after the fact without knowledge of the donors not so much.

 

 

I think that may become a personal policy from now on dealing with Eagles Candidates and Scouts asking for money.....I need to see a hard copy of their project budget

[Twocubdad]

Ah, A written budget plan shared with potential cash donors makes me feel better about it.

 

List of materials and include lunch for volunteers.

 

 

EVERY Eagle project run by one of my Scouts has that, a materials lists, schedule, tools needed, etc., etc.

 

While I will grant you those things are now optional as part of the "Final Plan" section of the workbook, we will STRONGLY encourage out Scouts to complete those items, as appropriate to each project.

 

Another new item in the new workbook is an Eagle Project Fundraising Application which requires approval of the unit, beneficiary and council. This unit will not approve a fundraising app without a detailed budget.

[EagleWB]

If you check page 9 of the workbook you will find "Preliminary Cost Estimate" and one of the items is other.The asterisk then lists *Such costs as food, water, gasoline, parking, permits, equipment rental, sales tax, etc. So if it is listed in the workbook I don't see how they can deny it.

[qwazse]

I think that may become a personal policy from now on dealing with Eagles Candidates and Scouts asking for money.....I need to see a hard copy of their project budget

 

BD, that's what I teach my 3rd-5th grade Sunday School Students about any church they decide to join. Forget statements of faith. To know if they believe in what you believe, ask to see their budget.

[raisinemright]

Friends,

 

I want to thank you for all the great advice. As clarification, the question strictly had to do with feeding the crew on work day. Lunch, snacks etc. as a legitimate project expense. A post project party was something I had never thought of and would not pursue such an idea as a fundraising expense, unless suggested by the beneficiary.

 

Beavah, in principle I agree with ye that it should be the scout who fights this battle. However, the policy was laid down by someone empowered to speak for district. There were nearly 200 people in the room. As such, this is an adult conversation that needs to occur.

 

Thanks again y'all.

[Horizon]

All of the projects at my Troop have included food for the workers during the job. It allowed the candidates to run an all-day work day. Due to the fungibility of funds, those meals were paid for by the donors.

 

When my son was putting his final report together, his adviser reminded him to put in the cost of all of the drivers to get to and from his work site up in the mountains. That was donated money in terms of goods (he used the Federal rate from the IRS for miles, and then wrote a receipt for every one of the drivers after the fact). His project also provided breakfast, lunch, drinks and coffee.