Eagle Candidate using raised funds to feed workcrew

[CalicoPenn]

I don't think you have to go to war with the district or council right now, but I do believe you should be asking the DAC where that rule is coming from since the workbook suggests including food in the budget as a cost (show him the passage). It may very well be a case where he was told about this rule and didn't know enough or couldn't be bothered to question it himself.

[FScouter]

If the worker needs to bring food and water, then he should also bring the nails he needs to hammer, and paint, and paintbrush too.

[AlamanceScouter]

It seems to me that providing food to the volunteer workers is a legitimate part of the budget and should be funded. Of course, the cost should be reasonable.

[Basementdweller]

Twocubs......I am not disputing $10 for coco and doughnuts......I am wondering what significant is and why the Eagle or Parent feels they need to spend $100 or several hundred dollars to feed the crew?????

 

 

And why is this a rich or poor issue?????

 

 

Worse case you can get cold cuts and a loaf of bread and feed the crew..... Get the mustard ketsup and mayo out of your fridge. You can also get the large food service soup cans very reasonable and feed a large group veggie soup and cold cuts cheap.

 

I agree it is a nice gesture but if the project is sort on funds then I would not feed the volunteers if I could not afford it.

 

What happened to volunteering without the expectation of reward??????

 

 

[John-in-KC]

$40 is $40, to use BD's numbers. It needs to be budgeted for and accounted for.

 

It also matters how big the project is, and how many folks are working. 40 kids at 3 slices of Little Ceasars is 15 pizzas, at $6 a pop (yes, in my neck of the woods they've raised the price as of Jan 1) is $90.

 

It also needs to happen. Absolute altruism is a bit rare even for the most generous adults. We're talking about kids, whose minds full of mush are still developing/setting. Feed the workers.

[Beavah]

You guys really think there is an issue of budgeting a small percentage of a project's budget to take care of and show appreciation for the Scouts who are doing the work? I just don't get it.

 

Yah, me either.

 

'Round these parts, questions would be raised durin' a project review if there weren't plans for feeding and watering the workers. Especially in outdoor projects where it can be a safety issue for da younger fellows.

 

I don't know a council anywhere that doesn't occasionally feed its donors and volunteers. So what's sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander, eh? I know the local parks in these parts provide snacks and drinks on volunteer work days, as well as a "volunteer appreciation" dinner at the end of the season, so it's also commonly accepted practice.

 

Yeh do it not because the volunteers "need" it, but because a Scout is Courteous and takes care of his helpers. No different than writin' thank you letters.

 

Beavah

 

[Basementdweller]

Beavah

 

I have never received a free meal from the bsa.

 

District awards dinner is a potluck and they charge $10 a person for the meat......which was donated I might add.

 

When I was being recruited as district membership chair and day camp program director. Both over dinner i picked up my own tab. No bjggy.......but

 

Roundtable they have a old coffee can that is the coffee fund....if the coffee can is empty no coffee for roundtable......

 

Just sayin(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Twocubdad]

Well there's your problem, BD, you're accustomed to dealing with a bunch of tightwads!

 

Where are Scouts spending hundreds of dollars feeding their workers?

 

(Granted, in Raisinemright's OP the instructor mentioned 25 pizzas, but since they were pulling policy out of thin air, I assume that's where they got the number of pizzas, too.)

 

Reasonableness is an issue. I dont'think anyone is arguing food shouldn't be incidental to the project. For the most part, that's an issue between the Scout and the beneficiary (since the money belongs to the beneficiary). But if I have a Scout bringing me a Fundraising application and I feel his food budget is grossly out of proportion, we're going to discuss it. Maybe he has a good reason for the expense. Maybe he just hasn't thought it through. Maybe we can reschedule his work sessions to avoid meal times.

 

[hicountry]

I recall threads here or elsewhere a year or two back trying to establish that Eagle Scout projects were being done outside the sphere of the unit or scouting, that it was a stand alone effort between the scout and the benficiary. Seems like the additional rules, forms and requirements are leaning toward establishing the EP is within the sphere of scouting, at least the way I see it (And always did see it).

 

There has been debate here and on another thread about covering food and drink for volunteers on EP's, I beleive plenty have made their cases, mostly for it's justification so I won't add to that. My point being, if some district or council adds to the requirements and basically throws small road blocks in a scouts way, it may be a bigger waste of time, energy, relationsips and resources to fight them. Play the game they are un-necesarily creating and only tell them what they want to hear, don't sweat the small stuff.

 

If your scout has a project that is budget for $450 and he creates that money via donations from relatives, neighbors, kicks in money he made doing odd jobs whatever, make the reported funds match the budgeted cost and don't mention food or drinks for the napoleans in your council who made up the extra rule on fundraised money toward food. The money aunt Aggness or Uncle Harold or Johnny scout provided for $60 that is beyond the $450 budget for is ignored, food is bought and provided for volunteers and no mention of the $60 or food is put on paper. The folks at your council making up and adding to requirements are kept quiet, you and your scout save tiime fighting with them, the project gets done and everyone is happy.

[fred8033]

hicountry: Your advice is very practical and it gets the job done. And in every day life I might even do that.

 

But it's a classic ethics lesson.

 

I'd have a real hard time coaching the scout to keep two sets of books. That's really what's being suggested. An official statement that you actually sign your name on saying the info is true and accurate. The scout's putting his word and character on line saying the numbers are right. And a second set of books that tracks the actual donations. Not cool. It may work and it's just a little omission, but it leaves out the scout oath and law. At that point, it's better to just not do the project. Seriously.

 

(Plus if this was a real business or non-profit with real size money, doing something like that is fraud. Yeah people might do it all the time, but it's still mis-reporting donations/income and creating a false financial statement. )

 

The better solution is to teach the scout what's right and to tell him to do what's right and to tell him that you'll be there to take the heat if someone has a problem with it. Then be there for him and work to get things fixed. That's our job as adult leaders. Shield the scout from the stupidity of other well meaning, but misinformed adult leaders. The scouts job is to work the obstacles and headaches of his project. Our job is to work the obstacles and headaches of other adults.

[Eagle732]

I'd be more inclined to advise the Eagle candidate to disclose the food purchases, report them accurately, get the benefactors approval, then go to the EBOR and let them judge if the candidate will be approved. I'd advise the candidate if questioned to ask the board to show him where it says he's not suppose to fund feeding crews. Sometimes a polite, well thought out question can be a compelling argument. I'm thinking that an EBOR would not vote down a candidate over this point.

[JoeBob]

Here we have a classic case of Idealist vs. Realist.

 

fred argues idealistically that the council should not be adding requirements so report everything up front. Follow the Scout law (Trustworthy) down to the last letter.

And that is a good argument to make. Set a high standard.

 

hicountry argues realistically that the council IS ADDING REQUIREMENTS, so a scout should BE PREPARED to deal with it. Why fight the control freak old fogies?

Preparing a scout to deal with the real world is also a good lesson to teach.

 

Real world? If you don't feed your workers, they ain't coming back. A one day Eagle project might get by without food; but don't try that in life!

 

[qwazse]

A one day Eagle project might get by without food; but don't try that in life!

 

Our troop has quite a few candidates coming through the pipeline, most of them have ambitious projects that require more than one day, so scouts develop certain expectations. Sometimes the benefiting group pays. Sometimes the family pays. Sometimes additional funds are raised. Sometimes older scouts expect to show up at a project with a few bucks to pitch in for food.

 

So the OP's problem today involves one project, but he's SM for more than just his kid. So, yeah, it's important to educate "the control freak old fogies" that he's not about to countenance restrictions that impede a boy from putting together a sound and satisfactory plan.